Uniting Industries Around Water Safety

Episode 2 May 25, 2023 01:00:41
Uniting Industries Around Water Safety
The Water Safety Podcast
Uniting Industries Around Water Safety

May 25 2023 | 01:00:41

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Show Notes

William Koon, Rescue Expert and Injury Prevention and Emergency Services Consultant, discusses how his passion for water safety led him to Australia and the building of the California Water Safety Coalition.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 00:00:01 N D P A presents the Water Safety Champion Podcast. Speaker 2 00:00:11 All right, water Safety Champions. Welcome back to the N D P A Water Safety Champion Podcast, episode two of season two. Uh, I'm Adam Kemarie, the executive director of N D P A, and I am so lucky, of course, to be joined by my guest co-host today, Alyssa Mara. Alyssa. Hello. And today. Speaker 3 00:00:32 Fantastic. Speaker 2 00:00:34 So good to talk to you again after we had our discussion in episode one, learned about your water safety story, and then you pinned me down and made me share my water safety story. Um, but this is the new format of our podcast, and we're gonna be bringing on, um, a water safety champion from around the globe each episode, uh, to learn about their water safety, uh, story, what makes them a water safety champion. And Alyssa, I loved how you asked it, not just what's your water safety story, but what's your water story Cause So oftentimes, um, we end up in water safety, but it started within a, uh, an affection for water in a way, Speaker 3 00:01:10 Or, or some people, uh, it might have been a trauma in water. I mean, that water story, I asked that question when I meet with groups, when I train young kids, teenagers, adults, because I think that plays into so much of how we live, breathe, are around water, is that water story. And that then translates into, for those of us who are in this water safety champions world, the water safety story. Speaker 2 00:01:39 Yeah. Well, I want to get right to our guest today cuz I can't think of a better person that may fit the definition of a global water safety champion other than our good friend Will Coon joining us from down under Hi, will. Speaker 4 00:01:56 Hey Adam. Hi Alyssa. Speaker 3 00:01:58 Hi. So you're global. Yeah. I love it. Speaker 2 00:02:03 Will has his hands, uh, kind of everywhere. I, uh, uh, I can't keep up with him sometimes I'm busy enough in the United States, but he's also active in the United States in California, which I'm sure we'll, uh, talk about there. And I know will you contributed, uh, to both California, you kind of led the development of their action plan and coalition and also, uh, helped contribute, uh, to the US National Water Safety Action Plan. But, um, will, let's, you know, start out, uh, the, you know, question we ask everyone, give us a little bit of your water background, how, you know, how did you end up where you are? How did you, uh, start in water safety? What's your background with water? Speaker 4 00:02:42 Okay. Um, well first it's, it's great to be, uh, on the pod, especially with you both. Um, this is gonna be fun. Thanks for the invite. So, where my water story, where I started, I, I think some of my earliest memories of, um, being in and around the water actually were my, my own swim lessons. And, um, my entire family went to the same swim instructor who taught swim lessons out of her backyard pool. And she was this German woman named Gretchen, who's a little bit of a legend in the, uh, like Huntington Beach Seal Beach Los Alamedos area in sunny California. And, um, and I remember going with my cousin Meg and my aunt Hollywood take us, and we would walk in and both of us were just crying our eyes out. We don't want to go in the water. And Gretchen would just come around the corner and say, you will swim. And, uh, and we did, we learned how to swim <laugh>. And the best part of the whole thing was at the very end, she would, uh, she would give us a, a lollipop. Um, you know, when you're, when you're finished with your swim lesson. And, um, full circle, my, you know, my cousin, uh, Meg, who now lives in in Tampa, also teaches swim lessons and has carried on the lollipop tradition. So she doesn't, it's great. Like, she's got the, I don't think she's got the you swim, but she, I was gonna say Speaker 3 00:03:52 Is she has the German forceful uh, Speaker 4 00:03:56 Yeah, Speaker 2 00:03:56 Fascinated. I I have quite the visualization going through my mind right now. Speaker 4 00:04:01 Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So that was good. So, um, I think those are some of my earliest memories, but look like water has always been part of my life. I grew up in Huntington Beach, uh, which is just south of Los Angeles in, in Orange County and Southern California. And, um, you know, I grew up, uh, going to the beach, swimming, surfing, diving, sailing, kind of doing all of those sorts of activities. Um, swim team and water polo was a really big part of my, kind of my high school years. And, um, part of that, uh, water polo bra, kind of like that water polo path was trying out to be a lifeguard. And so I, I never really knew a whole lot about beach lifeguards. I didn't really, it wasn't something that I always wanted to do. And you didn't dream of Speaker 3 00:04:47 Being David Hasselhoff. You Speaker 4 00:04:49 Didn't know David Hassel? No, I didn't. I didn't, this, it was never like really a part of my, you know, as a young person wasn't like really high on my radar, but all my friends were going to the tryout on Saturday, and so I said, okay, whatever, I'll go. Um, so I went and, and I made the swim, and then I, they gave me an interview and I'm, you know, 16 years old, like fumbling my way through an interview. Like, I don't have any experience. I think I'd be good at helping people, like, you know, that sort of thing. Um, was was given a, an alternate spot. So, you know, I know that there's a massive lifeguard shortage now, but back then, you know, these lifeguard jobs were, uh, were gold. And so, you know, they were taking, I think this was California State parks. They were taking 55 or 60 people into the class, and I was number like 63. And so they told me, you know, show up on day one, um, and if someone else doesn't come, we'll let you in. And so I showed up on day one and someone else didn't show up. And so I was literally the last person, um, into the, into the left grip treating. And then from there, um, yeah, from there things just kind of took off over the years. Speaker 2 00:05:56 So, uh, I do wanna dive into, I mean, you used to work, it was kind of funny. I, I didn't make the connection originally, but I, you know, you went a public health route with your education, right? So I'm curious to know kind of what led you to that. Um, and I want to get to your work with, uh, ho Hospital and Project Out, because it was funny, I was introduced to Project Wipe Out when I was an undergraduate. Um, Speaker 4 00:06:20 Oh yeah. Okay. Speaker 2 00:06:21 Yeah. One of my professors like, you need to check this out, isn't this cool? And then of course I find out, you know, you were, uh, running that program at one point, so, uh, you know, kind of what drove you, you know, what got you from your beach lifeguard career to I guess, you know, we'll call it your academic pursuits, um, in public health and, uh, drowning prevention. Speaker 4 00:06:42 Yeah, that's, that's a good question. So, um, so back in w in, in university I majored in Spanish literature. Um, and that's an odd start to that question, but it is an important, um, it is an important route. So I, yeah, I was studying Spanish and part of my, um, undergraduate Spanish lit program was a study abroad mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, course. And so I had loads of constraints on mainly because of work. Cause I was still working as much as I could at the beach and trying to go to school and do that. And, and so it, I I found a program that kind of checked all the boxes. It fulfilled the, the school requirements and like, worked with my summer schedule, um, in the Dominican Republic. And so, um, I, I had previously been in, in Ecuador and done a lot of travel in, in South America, but hadn't spent a whole lot of time in the Caribbean. Speaker 4 00:07:29 And so I went to the Dominican Republic to study, and I was taking a course that was like a community health class. And again, I, there was no super high interest in community health. It was just like, uh, one of the classes that checked a lot of boxes in at the time schedule. And, but it was taught by this, it was taught by a Dominican doctor and, and she was awesome. So I was there and, uh, and Hurricane Irene hit, uh, hit the island mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and she knew this professor knew a little bit of my background as a beach lifeguard. And I, there might have been some stuff lost in translation, but she, she basically thought that I was a water rescue expert, which might have been true, like in a surf beach environment, <laugh>, um, not a whole lot of other things. But she, she called me and she said, Hey, would you be willing to help with some of the, the hurricane, um, response? Speaker 4 00:08:25 And I said, yeah, absolutely. I w I thought that I was gonna show up and like, pick things up and put things down, move sandbags, carry bags of rice, you know, that sort of thing. And so I walk into this room and there's a bunch of kind of volunteers sitting around, and then they looked at me and they were like, oh, the water rescue experts here. And I went, uh, where <laugh>, who's the water rescue expert. And so, and so they, I I, we kind of figured out that like I wasn't the water rescue expert they needed. And, but I ended up helping, you know, and that, uh, that opened up a lot of, uh, a lot of doors actually. Um, and, and we ended up running a beach lifeguard training in the Dominican Republic. And they, once they figured out that that's what I was in, they said, oh, we need beach lifeguards too. Speaker 4 00:09:06 And, and that, that kicked off a whole nother kind of, uh, off spin of, of my water safety world where I, I spent a lot of time working in Latin America training lifeguards and doing that sort of thing. So I, I explain all of that to you because, you know, my, that path, that decision, the ocean lifeguard versus academic kind of path split really started from my experience working in low and middle income countries in Latin America around this issue. And I quickly figured out that I, I needed some training and I needed some frameworks, and I needed some, um, mentorship and some guidance if I wanted to make an impact in a really complex space. And that's what drowning is, right? It's a really complex mm-hmm. <affirmative> issue mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so at that point then there was this kind of, this path, you know, I, I like, there's this path in front of me of like, okay, I know I want to go back to grad school. Uh, but I also at that time was like barreling down the professional lifeguard path. And so I got to the point, I actually got all the way to the point where I was, um, I interviewed to be a permanent, um, full-time professional lifeguard with the state of California. Um, and I was doing that and applying for grad school at the same time. And I had like both offers in front of me and, and ended up choosing to go to graduate school. Um, and, and Speaker 3 00:10:32 I'm curious about what, how did you choose that? What was the process of decision making there? Speaker 4 00:10:38 Yeah, <laugh>. Wow. What a question. Rolling Speaker 3 00:10:42 The dice, <laugh>. Speaker 4 00:10:44 No, no, it definitely wasn't rolling the dice. It definitely wasn't rolling the dice. Um, I saw, you know, I saw a new opportunity. Um, I saw, uh, a chance to question, to be questioned, to get thrown into something that was completely new. Um, you know, here I am, uh, 10 years plus removed from that moment thinking, God, you know, it's pretty nice to be sitting on a beach in San Diego right now, <laugh>. But, uh, you know, here we're, we're neither here nor there, right. Um, so yeah, I, I, I don't really have a, a good answer. All I do know, and I feel comfortable though, that it was the right one. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> for me mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, yeah. And, and a big part of that I think was, you know, I, I had a couple different options for graduate school in the public health world, and I ended up doing my master's in public health with Dr. Linda Kwan, um, and Tizzy Bennett at, um, the University of Washington and Seattle Children's Hospital. And that made all of the difference, all of the difference, um, being able to learn from work with and be guided by those two incredible, um, powerhouse ladies was Speaker 3 00:12:02 Water safety champions, which I'm sure we'll be talking to them at some point Speaker 4 00:12:05 In this. Yeah. Those are, those are water safety legends, um, season three. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, so that, that was a little bit of that, that decision point. Um, but the other cool thing was that I was able to bring in all my lifeguard nerd stuff into my schooling Yeah. And into that initial training, which made all the difference, right? Because I was sitting in a class and a biostatistics class way over my head not understanding anything, but having an idea about, oh, if I could, you know, if I could use, uh, rescue data to do that statistical test, or maybe I could like create a study around, you know, lifeguard performance in this way. So, like, I had an issue I was really passionate about that helped me apply a lot of these concepts. Um, you know, you had Speaker 3 00:12:50 A good laboratory. Speaker 4 00:12:52 Totally. Totally. Speaker 2 00:12:54 Well, and I, I don't know, will, I think you'll probably agree with this, but I know you're in a, a doctoral program right now, and, um, I'm sure we'll talk a little bit about that. But, um, you know, I work with doctoral students. I've served on doctoral committees and, you know, obviously went through the process myself, and I always found it so fascinating because others were jealous of me because I knew when I came into my DOC program, what I wanted to study, I, I knew, like, I didn't know exactly what the study was gonna look like then. I was a little naive to that, but I, I kind of had that passion driving, you know, for it. And I think that's a little bit unique. And I'm just curious, I mean mm-hmm. <affirmative>, do you think that helped you get through kind of the difficult process that is graduate school by kind of having that passion? Because I know it helped me. Speaker 4 00:13:40 Uh, yeah. You're, you're, you know, you hit the nail in the head there. Like it is unique in the fact that someone would come into a program, whether it's a master's program or, or a PhD kind of level program with a laser focus mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, right. And so I think, Adam, you're right, that you and I were probably unique in that sense, which was helpful. Yeah. Um, really helpful. Cuz a lot of my colleagues and peers came in and said, I wanna do something in water and sanitation health Yep. And I don't really know. And then they go and they do a bunch of that and they figure out, I don't like this issue. Yeah. That's not what I Speaker 3 00:14:12 Wanna do something else. Speaker 4 00:14:13 Yeah. Which is fine, right? Really. Which is fine. But for, for me, I came in with this pretty specific focus on drowning prevention and water safety lifeguard stuff. And, and that kind of carried me all the way through. And one of the a and we'll, we'll get to this kind of in the timeline a little bit later, but as I was debating on starting a PhD program and considering that process, um, I got some really good advice from, from a friend, um, from Dr. Tesa Clemons, who, who'd been through the process as well, a as a PhD student studying drowning prevention. She told me, you have to love, absolutely love your topic. Mm. Cause by the end of it, you'll be burned out and you will not like it anymore. And so I, and here I am, I can only imagine if I was lukewarm about what I was studying and Oh man. Speaker 3 00:15:03 Hard to find the motivation. Speaker 4 00:15:05 Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Really hard to find the motivation. So, you know, it is good that you really love what you do. It is really good that you have kind of a focus, but it, I don't think it's completely necessary if somebody is interested in going down that path. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:15:23 So, uh, how did you make the leap then? Like, what did you do after your, uh, MPH was done? Did you, I, I know you ended up working, uh, ho hospital for a little bit and then Yep. Yeah, let's talk about it. I mean, you know, what'd you do after? And then how'd you end up, down under? Speaker 4 00:15:38 Okay. Um, so postmasters in public health program, um, I, I came out with some skills. Um, I've really leaned into the data side of that Master's in Public Health program, um, which was interesting and fun and made me like a super math nerd. I mean, like, you're talking to somebody who like cheated in geometry in high school and like failed algebra two. Right. <laugh>. And like, here I am. So there's hope Speaker 3 00:16:06 For me. Oh my gosh. Speaker 4 00:16:07 There's hope. Yeah. There's hope. There's hope for everyone. Yeah. Yeah. There's hope for everyone <laugh>. So, um, yeah. So I came out of the MPH program and, um, and got connected with, uh, the community health department at Hogue Hospital in Newport Beach. And, uh, hog Hospital since the eighties has ran a spinal cord beach safety injury prevention type program, um, focused on partnership with the local lifeguards and public education. So the story is like kind of legendary, right? Like, it, it was this emergency medicine doctor who walked in on a Saturday afternoon in July, and five of the emergency department beds were filled with young men with spinal cord injuries from Newport Beach. And he went, oh my gosh, we've gotta do something about this. And so, you know, he started, Dr. Jack Skinner started this program, um, and it's been through many cycles over the years. Speaker 4 00:17:09 And so I got in touch with, um, Dr. Michelle Rose and, and Lauren Tabos, who were running the program at the time. And I said, Hey, look, I'm coming out with my mph. Um, I'm gonna graduate soon. And I, you know, I would love to be involved if there's any way. And it was interesting cuz at the time there was kind of a change in personnel and the project was moved from emergency department to community health. There was something happening. And, um, basically the timing was perfect for me to slide in and, and, and run the program. And so I came in. So, Speaker 3 00:17:40 Can I ask a question? Can I ask a question? Yeah. And, and that's just for, I think I know the answer, but for those who are listening who might not, we're talking surfing injuries, is this how these spinal cord injuries were happening? Or how Speaker 4 00:17:52 Was, so that's Speaker 3 00:17:52 A, yeah, Speaker 4 00:17:53 That's a really good question. Um, it is a lot of the above. So the ye uh, yes. Surfing injuries, bodyboarding injuries, body surfing injuries. Got it. Um, but also, you know, there's this whole series of surf zone injuries that are people who are not, who are just playing like standing. They're Speaker 3 00:18:12 Not intending to do it again, Speaker 4 00:18:13 Kinda. No, no. I mean, you would be, think about somebody chest west, you know, chest to waist deep mm-hmm. <affirmative> and a big wave picks 'em up and slams 'em back. Yep. And they land funny and it's a dislocated shoulder or a, a broken wrist or Yeah. God forbid if they land on their back of their head, potentially a broken neck or, or some sort of spinal cord issue. Um, so yeah, that's, thank you. That's kind of how those Yeah. How those injuries, um, of those injuries happen. So yeah. So I was able to slide in and, and, uh, work with Project Wipeout, which was this incredible blend of like my lifeguard background, um, my passion for connecting people and partnership, and then all of this training that I had just come out with, with thinking about public health models and health promotion and effective intervention and program design. Um, and it was this like amazing way to blend all of these kind of these things right out of the gate from my master's program. Speaker 3 00:19:17 Yeah. That's kind of a dream. Speaker 4 00:19:19 Oh, situation a Speaker 3 00:19:20 Yeah. Speaker 4 00:19:21 It was a total dream. Yeah. And it was, you know, it was great. Like I, I came in and, um, one of the very first things that I did, and I I, anybody listening who is in a, in a situation where they come into a program with a lot of history, um, will understand this, you know, I was stepping into a 25 or a 30 plus year historical program, right? Like, Adam, you had heard about this in your undergrad from on the other side of the country. I was at a conference and somebody figured out that I was from California and said, oh, I've heard of this thing called Project Wipeout. Right. So the first thing that I did was I went to the records, there was probably six boxes of just files. And I went through and I read everything to just kind of learn some of that corporate and institutional history and try and design some systems that weren't so dependent on a single person. Speaker 4 00:20:12 Yeah. And so, um, you know, one of the, one of the things that we spent a lot of time setting up was a structure for partnership with the local lifeguard agencies where we established a committee and every lifeguard department in Orange County has a standing invitation to send a representative open. Everybody's involved, everybody can contribute. Now not everybody shut up for every meeting, of course, cuz everybody's busy. But, um, you know, a real focus on the, the kind of the corporate system that allows for that collaboration, um, removed it from being like Will and all of his friends mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right. Or like Will and the people that he knows down at the beach. Uh, and so, and, and you know, I, I think that that was time well spent because that committee's still running, driving the activities. Um, and, and the programmatic kinda aspects of that. Speaker 2 00:21:08 Well, I think that is such a, a key thing, right? And I mean, I, I know all three of us have mm-hmm. <affirmative> had experiences, you know, with this is, it's so reliant sometimes, you know, whether it be a program, an organization on, you know, one or two people, and what happens when those one or two people are no longer there or have moved on to something else. You know, we all wanna see the good work that we all do, you know, continue on. But it's that succession planning, right? And I think that was so smart to do that. Like, if you want this program to live on in perpetuity for years and years to come, um, to set something like that up where you don't feel like you're carrying that burden and if you step away, it all collapses, right? Speaker 4 00:21:49 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Speaker 3 00:21:50 Oh. And that's so hard to do both of those things. Like to do the passion work and the, I mean, I'm living it right now in my, you know, my succession out of Colin's hope. And I'm sure that the people that are after me are probably hating the way that I did 95% of the things. Cuz it was like, you know, the systems are not Yeah. Set up that great because of you want, I want the passion of doing the work and the creating the system sometimes falls to the side, which is not a great strategy, but yeah, Speaker 4 00:22:19 It is, it is this interesting mix, right? And like, let's, let's call a SPUs spade. Like our egos are involved here, like we're passionate, but we also like want some control, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so being able to set some boundaries, um, have a long term vision, um, is really important. And, and then that is counterbalanced by like, relationships are the secret sauce, right? Like, like a lot of this work happens because you've got a relationship with somebody or you build a relationship with someone or someone connects you to someone that connects you to someone that's gonna make an amazing thing happen. And so, you know, balancing these, these different elements of that sort of programmatic collective, uh, sort of impact work is, is a challenge. It's a constant challenge. Speaker 3 00:23:07 Oh, it totally is. And those relationships, it's interesting. I mean, those relationships and those, because relationship is so deep in the partnership, it's not as always an easy, just hand it off to another human because that, and that is a huge challenge and a huge challenge. <laugh> Oh, it's a challenge. It's a huge challenge. Speaker 4 00:23:26 It's, let me know when you guys find out the answer. I'm really, well, good Speaker 3 00:23:29 Luck. I I was about to ask you the same, I was about to ask you the same thing and you're, you both are PhD or on your way to PhD, so I'm gonna lean on you to have that answer, <laugh>. Speaker 2 00:23:39 Well, that's the dangerous thing. Don't believe people's PhDs have all the answers. Oh, no, no, no. My colleagues would love to hear that, but I'm gonna tell you that's, I know. Speaker 4 00:23:46 True. Speaker 2 00:23:48 Um, well let's talk a little bit about how you ended up, um, you know, where you're at right now. I mean, um, obviously it's an amazing opportunity to, you know, go to go to Australia and, you know, work with who you're working with. I mean, you have an amazing advisor and I'm sure you're surrounded just by amazing colleagues where you're at. But, you know, let's set that up. How did, how did that come about? Um, you know, and, and I guess, you know, walk us through what led you to, uh, where you're at now. Speaker 4 00:24:16 Okay. Um, sure. So we, yeah, to answer this question, we're gonna go back a couple years. Um, again, so 2013 I had the opportunity to go to the World Conference on drowning in Potsdam, Germany. Um, and the World Conference on Drowning is an incredible event. Uh, it's a gathering of, um, you know, hundreds of drowning prevention experts from all over the planet. Uh, it's super fun, really informative. Um, so I, I showed up there freshly out of my undergrad. This was before my master's in public health work, right? And I had spent a, a fair bit of time in my undergraduate research reading about recurrence as a beach guy and a lifeguard. And, you know, like if I had to do a school program, I was gonna do it about beach stuff. Cuz at heart I'm a coastal safety guy, right? And, um, I read a lot of papers by this guy named Rob Brander who was in Australia, and he's a super duper rip current scientist. Speaker 4 00:25:18 And, and, you know, that was cool. So anyway, I get to Germany and then I see him, like I see Professor Rob Brad. He's like, he's there. And, uh, and so I was, I went to one of his talks and he said something that, um, has stuck with me. He, right, like, mind you, this is a guy who built his entire career on like studying recurrence, right? And he gets up in front of this group of people and says, you know, I don't think there's like a whole lot left to learn studying rip recurrence, like, I'm gonna dedicate the rest of my career to keeping people out of them and like keeping people safe. And, and I was sitting there going, whoa, like, that's, that's pretty big enough for somebody to say in front of a group of people like this. And so afterwards, I, I go up and I've like basically met him at the bar and he bought me a beer. Speaker 4 00:26:03 And we're sitting there chatting and we get to chatting and he tells me a little bit of his story and he's super cool and he's really nice. And he says, you know, this is 2013. He goes, you know, you should come down and do a PhD in Australia. We would've so much fun. And I rolled my eyes and went, no way. Like, I'm, I'm done with school. Like, I'm, you know, there's no, there's no way that's happening. And so then I, we went, I went back and then I started my master's program, um, after I came to the realization that I was gonna do more school. And I went to the world conference on drowning in 2015 in Malaysia, and I saw Brander again. And he like corners me, points me at me across the room, and he goes, Hey, you should come do a PhD in Australia. Speaker 4 00:26:43 We would've so much fun. You would, it would be so cool. We would just have such a good time. You would be able to do so much cool stuff. So I roll my eyes and, and it kind of became like our running joke that he was always just saying like, oh, you should do it. You should do it. So then for the third time, I was at the World conference on drowning prevention this time in Vancouver. You were there in 17? Yep. Yeah, everybody, yeah. Yeah, everybody was there. And, um, and Rob kind of corners me and he says, okay, look like I know this is the joke, but if you are interested in this, like you should really consider doing this. I think you'd be, you'd be, uh, uh, uh, you know, a good candidate for, for a scholarship. And so then I, um, I went back and started talking with my partner Noelle about it. Speaker 4 00:27:25 And we, you know, we discussed it and said, okay, well, we can always say no, let's just put in our applica, let's put in the application and see what happens. And so then, um, from that point I put in an application and the stars just aligned, like I mm-hmm. <affirmative>, my partner Noelle was able to finish her master's program in San Diego before we went. Um, we decided that it was a, the right thing to do was an incredible adventure, a great opportunity, a an awesome chance to move to Australia. Um, so we got everything together and we moved to Sydney in two, in 2020, in January of 2020. Ooh, geez. I punch. And then everything punchline is coming and then everything. Yeah. And then everything shut down <laugh>. So we, yeah. So we moved to Australia and we had all these trips planned back for weddings and all this stuff in 2020. Speaker 4 00:28:16 And then of course, none of that happened. Um, but, uh, yeah, I mean, the pandemic was complicated and terrible, um, for a lot of people, but for, for us it was, we were where we needed to be. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, you know, both on a professional and a personal level. Being in Australia, um, allowed us to do a lot of growing and a lot of reflecting. Um, but I, like I said, both personally and professionally. So, um, all that to say, yeah, I am kind of in the third plus year of the PhD program, um, here in Oz, working with Dr. Brander. And another piece of the stars aligning was, um, drowning prevention, research superstar, Dr. Annie Peon, um, who, if you've been in, in the research film Yep. You'll have read like at least 16 of her papers. Yeah. Um, uh, moved over to U N S W, the university at about the time that I started. So she, she started working at the university I'm at, um, yeah, a little bit before I started. And so she's also on my, on my, uh, advisory team, which has been an absolute dream. Speaker 2 00:29:23 That's so cool. And I, I will say, you know, one thing that, uh, most doctoral students don't think about when they start their program is who they're referred to differently. Doctoral chair, doctoral advisor, whoever that person is going to be because they control so much of, of what you study, what your, what your focus is, what your coursework may be. Um, I was very fortunate myself to find someone, and it was, it was totally by happenstance who had an interest in water safety. And it was, you know, willing to allow, uh, to foster, you know, that work for me. Um, but to, to be able to land at a university at the same time as Dr. Peon and be able to work with her. I mean, talk about the stars aligning, man. That's so cool. Speaker 4 00:30:10 Yeah. No, you're, you're absolutely right out of it. I think anyone listening who's thinking about, oh, I'm gonna go do a master's program, or thinking about doing a PhD, you know, wherever it is, the states as you can, wherever, um, the, the people that you are going to work with should be the most important consideration or one of the most important considerations in your decision making about where to go. And so, I actually just told acus, thinking about a PhD, if you, if you have a fantastic, you know, advisor at a state school and a terrible advisor at Harvard or Princeton, go with a fantastic advisor every single time. Mm-hmm. Speaker 2 00:30:51 <affirmative>. Speaker 4 00:30:52 Yep. Um, and, and I mean, I, I think Adam, a lot like you, you know, my experience has been totally formulated by Rob and Amy and before that Linda and Tizzy. Um, and I have peers who've been with supervisors that were less than ideal and they suffered from it. Speaker 2 00:31:09 Yeah, absolutely. Um, so will I wanna ask you about your working California, um, because even though you're on the other side of the planet, you are leading the charge almost. I know you, there's a group of you, you are, you are quite central to it, my man in California. So, um, and, and, and really, I mean, this is really exciting. I mean, to see, um, a state like California, you know, I know it's not the only one by far with, you know, coalition work happening, but I'd like you to talk a little bit about, you know, where this started and, and what your involvement's been. Speaker 3 00:31:43 Well, I wanna say something really quick before he does that. And coming from a state that is, you know, I'm in Texas and Will and I have talked for a couple of years about statewide work and things like that. And we've struggled in Texas with getting our act together and aligned and all that stuff and how to pause and are getting started back up again. And we are now looking at the work that you have been doing in California for the last couple of years. And so it is, I wanna, you know, lead this off and say it's, it's inspiring from the perspective of like, those of us who are now like, okay, there are trailblazers that are doing it and doing things. And so, um, it is motivating to do, to do more. So, so before you start, I just wanna say thank you for that leadership and, um, I'm excited to get to come out to California in a couple weeks to to at the Summit Speaker 4 00:32:35 Effect. Yeah. Oh, I'm so excited to see you both the, the Water Safety summit next couple weeks as well. Um, thank you for saying that. Yeah. And I think, you know, a lot of the credit does go to, you know, the folks who've been doing that work in California for decades mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right. Um, and so <laugh>, yeah. Okay. I feel like every time I'm answering a question, we gotta go back like a couple years, right? There's, there is like a little time. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah. So let's go back a couple years. So, um, uh, we've already chatted a little bit about my time at, at Houe Hospital at Project Wipeout, and this, this work really stems from when I was working at Houe. Um, so for the listeners who are not aware of the story of Ben Carlson, I would highly recommend that you go on a Google and type in Ben Carlson, Newport Beach lifeguard in a nutshell. Speaker 4 00:33:27 Um, Ben was a Newport Beach lifeguard who died while making a rescue in 2014, in July of 2014. And it, um, I, I was, I was working in Huntington Beach that day. I will never ever forget, um, sending a team down to, to help the Newport Beach guards and just hearing the news. And I was really, really, um, tragic. Anyway, in the aftermath of Ben's death, um, his family and several Newport Beach lifeguards got together to, uh, establish a foundation like many, um, you know, uh, after, kind of, after a tragedy. This has happened for several folks. One of the interesting things about this though, was that Ben was in his thirties, and Ben was a professional lifeguard. I mean, Ben wasn't a child, and this wasn't, you know, a, a a failure of a pool gate or a lack of supervision thing. You know, Ben lost his life in the line of duty. Speaker 4 00:34:29 And so, um, a couple years in the co the, the Ben Carlson Memorial Scholarship Foundation had, um, you know, a really established role in Southern California with professional lifeguards in the Newport Beach community. And Chris Carlson, um, Ben's father came to me in 2018 or 19, uh, in my role at Hogue Hospital and said, Hey, you know, we wanna do something. What do you think would be, what do you think would be impactful? And we started brainstorming about something that the, the foundation could be able to support. And one of the things that we started talking about that Chris actually had noticed as he stepped into the drowning prevention sector was just how siloed it was. And we're talking like on a, on a county level. We're talking Southern California, orange County, kind of LA area. Right. And one of the things, you know, that he noticed as a non, as somebody who hadn't spent decades in water safety right, was there's a lot of people working on this issue from a lot of different perspectives, and not a whole lot of them are talking to each other. Speaker 4 00:35:35 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so we ki I kind of pitched 'em. I said, well, hey, let's, like, let's host a meeting. Like, I love a meeting. Like, I love people. We can get 'em all in the room. Get everybody in the room. Yeah, yeah. Good food. And like, let's make it happen. And so and so they went for it. And so in 2019, we, we hosted the Southern California Water Safety Summit and, um, like didn't really know what was gonna happen. We like the, the goal was just to get people in the same room, uh, and see what, like, what happened. And at that meeting, it was quickly apparent that there was a gap that people wanted to do this. And people understood the value of bridging both professional and geo geographic silos. And what I mean by that is, um, a, uh, a pediatrician who's really interested in water safety from Orange County can meet a pediatrician from San Diego who's also really interested in childhood injury prevention. Speaker 4 00:36:35 And they get to make a professional connection there. What I mean by the, by the, for the professional silo is the lifeguard chief from Newport Beach can meet the person who runs the swim lessons at the Y M C A or the boys or girls club, or the municipal, like aquatic facility up the road. And they get to make a connection in their own community about how to advance water Haiti. So that meeting was awesome. Um, immediately planned for round two and then 20 <laugh>. And then, yeah. And then, so, so this was like, I moved to a, I moved to Australia. I kind of like passed this off to another incredible group of people who were, who were helping run that. And that, you know, John Moore and Fox, uh, you know, Rob Williams was involved at that point, Lauren from Hogue, like these people were, were running with it. Speaker 4 00:37:24 It was gonna be awesome. I was gonna fly back for it. And then of course we canceled, uh, with three days to spare, um, because of the pandemic. Yeah. And so we canceled the event. Um, everybody kind of took a step back cuz everything was kind of, you know, unknown. And at that time, and then about four months later, so we're talking mid 2020 now, July, 2020, we came back and Rob Williams. Um, and I started chatting about if we wanted to do another meeting and what would that look like? And, and one of the questions that we had been asking quietly was, is there room or a, a coalition, a statewide coalition to kind of serve as the backbone for this sort of thing? And so we decided to assemble a small group. We had about 10 people, um, from all over the state and from a variety of different backgrounds. Speaker 4 00:38:18 And we basically started a round of discussions on, is there a need for this? Is this just like an idea? Would you, how would, how would this look? Would you want this to see this happen? And the resounding answer was Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. We would love to see a, a statewide water safety coalition. Um, and so from that point forward, we embarked on a, uh, you know, over a year process of building a California Water Safety Coalition that was multi-sectorial in nature, um, that learned off of the decades of experience of people who had already been kind of working in water safety and or even either, you know, in their corner of swim lessons or their corner of public education. Um, and, and launched, uh, formally launched the, the, a new 5 0 1 <unk> <unk> nonprofit in February of last year. And so that's, yeah, that's kind of the, the, the beginning of the, of the California Water Safety Coalition. Speaker 4 00:39:20 And I do just need to say that it is like critically important that, um, there were several people who were really instrumental in making that happen. Um, Rob Williams was one of them. Chris Carlson, who I've chatted a little bit about, Julie Piccolo, um, who is the co co-founder of the Jasper Ray Foundation, lives in Orange and has been an absolute force for drowning prevention, um, um, since the passing of, of Jasper. Uh, and then, um, interestingly, uh, connections in relationships, um, Megan Ferraro and Karen Cohen from the Zach Foundation on the East Coast were, were instrumental, absolutely instrumental in guiding us and helping the California group actually get off the ground. Speaker 3 00:40:02 And they're, and they are helping us in Texas also. And that is something that is like a really a really awesome watching this process, watching your process. Cuz you and I talked like various times during, before and, and now us going through as a process here. And, um, yeah, the leadership pieces and the, the, some funding and some, all of those things are, are key. Um, I can't wait to have part two of this question or this conversation like in like six months of, you know, seeing further, because I know I read your draft, I think it's still draft that it's not an, it's not called an action plan, but the strategy in California, and it's like, you guys have done such amazing work, I'm putting together a, a document that is readable and very like practical and executable, which at least, you know, I think is super important. Um, I don't know. You're you're, you're blazing you're blazing the trail for a lot of people. Speaker 4 00:41:07 Well, yeah. And I, I, I just just need to specify too, that like you're, you're referring to the collective you, it's a, it's a you all. Yes. Speaker 3 00:41:13 Oh, yes. No, yeah, no, I am referring Speaker 4 00:41:15 To the collective view. Speaker 3 00:41:16 Yeah. You're a piece of that team to the team. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. You're the emissary right now, or Speaker 2 00:41:22 I wanna give a little plug, I mean, will some of the work you did as you were getting ready to start the work in California, um, you and Tizzy Bennett actually did a, uh, little mini podcast series that we aired on. That's right. BPA podcast platform. If you haven't gone and listened to those, I think they are really interesting. I think you might actually hear a couple similar voices on that series for the podcast. But really, you know, you went around and learned how other places around the world were doing this work, not just in the United States, but you actually reached out to other countries to figure out too mm-hmm. <affirmative> what their efforts were like. Speaker 4 00:41:55 Yeah. Right. And, um, I, and part of that question that we asked, should we start a California Water safety coalition, was kind of looking around and saying, you know, how has this succeeded? Or, or not? Like, let's, yeah, let's, let's be, let's be honest, you know, like, how, how has this not succeeded in some other places? They got some really, really good advice. And, um, those initial conversations, which are recorded and you can go listen to them, um, we're we're really helpful in building a framework and, uh, establishing some core values and, um, and really clarifying kind of the mission and the shared purpose and the role of this sort of organization. Those conversations had a, had a really, uh, big piece of that initial thinking with the California Water Safety Coalition. Speaker 2 00:42:46 So. Awesome. Well, I'm gonna give you, before I ask you our, uh, couple final questions here, as I know we're running out of time, I do want you to plug a little bit. We're, uh, you know, this podcast will probably, uh, right around the time that we're all in San Diego, um, for the California Water safety, some of great, uh, give us a little plug. I mean, what do you got lined up? You've got some amazing speakers. I, I'm really looking forward to being there and just interacting with everyone. Beautiful. Speaker 4 00:43:13 Uh, yeah. So, um, the, the Southern California Water Safety Summit that I spoke about, um, that happened in 2019, has kind of morphed into the, just the California Water Safety Summit. So this is a two day event, um, still with a big goal of like getting people together, right? Like mission number one, let's get a bunch of people together. Um, there's a huge focus on networking and collaboration and partnership. Um, this year, uh, the 2023 California Water Safety Summit is going to be held in San Diego, and we're really excited to co-host this with the Prevent Drowning Foundation of San Diego. So we have a local host and another, another, uh, yeah, water Safety Champion, um, line line. You guys have a Marion Downing and, and Nicole. Oh yeah. Speaker 5 00:44:02 It's the pool safety mom. Speaker 4 00:44:04 These, yeah, these people are, are incredible. Absolutely incredible. So we've got a, a really exciting event. This is April 25th and 26th, 2023. And there's a couple cool things happening. So first, um, this is going to be the launch event for the California Water Safety Strategy. And so what I'm referring to, there is a 40 plus page document that, uh, is the big blueprint for drowning prevention in the state. And we've spent, uh, close to 18 months working with partners from across the state, across the country and, and have had actually quite a bit of input from, from other countries as well, um, on how to formulate this, what does it look like, how is it useful? And so this is the type of thing that a pediatrician, a y m a pool manager, a chief lifeguard, a fire chief, a policymaker can pick up, um, flip through and e and align their work, uh, to, to kind of the broader drowning prevention path in the state. Speaker 4 00:45:10 So at the summit, we're gonna launch that event, which is really exciting. And, um, one of the other really exciting things at the event is our keynote speaker, um, who's actually coming from Sydney. So Justin Scarr is the C e O of Royal Lifesaving Australia mm-hmm. <affirmative> and has been a, a force in global drowning prevention efforts, um, for many, many years. And I, I've had the pleasure and the, and the real great opportunity to work with and for Justin while I've been down here on a couple different projects. And, um, I've had an opportunity to learn from him. And I, I've kind of threw out this invite as, not, not as a joke, but as like a, a hail Mary, like, Hey, Justin, want to come to San Diego and, and speak at the summit. He comes back and he says, uh, yeah, sure. Speaker 4 00:45:59 <laugh>. So we're, yeah. So we've got, uh, uh, Justin send, or excuse me, Justin scaring, um, as the keynote speaker, which is gonna be really great, especially paired with the launch of the strategy cuz you know, he's got, uh, decades of experience working with the Australian Water Safety Strategy. And we'll be able to share some tips on here's what we tried and here's what, here's how we failed, here's what we tried, here's what was successful, here's how we use it, here's how we don't use it. Um, and provide some of that kind of, uh, uh, advice to the, to the group will be really great. Um, and then we've got a whole bunch of other awesome speakers lined up. You know, we've got folks from the Department of Public Health, California Marine Safety Chief's Association, um, Connie Harvey's coming out from the Red Cross. Um, both of you are gonna be there. Yeah. It's gonna be, it's gonna be a really incredible, um, a really great time. Speaker 2 00:46:55 I think that's what I look forward to most often with these ones. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love the sessions, I love the, you know, academic side of it, but it's, it's, to me, it's become a family reunion when there's <crosstalk> and synergy. Speaker 3 00:47:05 Synergy and energy is Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:47:09 Uh, and I always leave those events reinvigorated, right? Because you kind of sometimes, like, I, I don't know how both of you work, but I work mainly from home. You know, I have my probably five rooms at my house dictate to drowning prevention and, and storage and things. But you know, oftentimes you can kind of feel like a man on an island all by yourself or a woman on their, you know, know an island all by themselves. And, you know, when you come to an event like this, you know, it kind of reinvigorates you, you know, re-energizes you in a way because you remember, it's not just me. I mean, you know, I'm lucky enough where I get to, you know, sit on Zoom and sit on meetings and have these types of conversations. But I think for a lot of people in water safety, you know, you're focused in your efforts in your community and, and recognizing your struggles are the struggles of everyone in the community, and we're all here working towards the same thing. Um, to me that's probably one of the most powerful things, um, at least that I look forward to with an event like this. So I'm super jazzed about it. Speaker 4 00:48:06 Yeah, you're, you're right, Adam. Like that, that shared purpose I think is really valuable and it is kind of a glue. Um, the other thing that happens at these meetings at at least for me is, um, you know, I get to glimpse the issue from other people's mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? So like, you know, drowning prevention, water safety is a, a complex issue for many reasons. But one of the most difficult and the most interesting pieces of this sector to me is everybody is approaching the problem with their own lens background training. Yep. Discipline, uh, frameworks, you know, they're using different tools to diagnose issues. They see things differently. And so here I am, like, I'm Will, I'm from Southern California, I am a beach lifeguard and a data guy. Right? Like, those are my bags of tricks, right? So for me to see the pro the problem from somebody who's, um, approaching this from a racial equity and justice system mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? Like that is an incredible learning opportunity for me, for me to sit down with somebody who's really focused on childhood development Yeah. And focusing on, um, you know, motor skills and how kids process and think and what they could learn. Like that is just so not my, that's not where I spend my time thinking. And so these events are an incredible opportunity to learn from folks who are, who are looking at this in a different way than I am. And I always find that, um, fascinating and invigorating, like you said. Speaker 2 00:49:53 Yeah. Well, well, I know we're running out of time, so I do wanna ask you the question that we ask all of our podcast, uh, water Safety Champions, is if I gave you a water safety magic wand and you could change one thing in water safety, what would that thing be? Speaker 4 00:50:13 Oh, Speaker 2 00:50:14 I know it's a cop. So Speaker 4 00:50:15 The the cop question. Yeah. So the cop the cop out answer is, oh, I could just make, you know, uh, you know, a magic bubble around anybody who's about to trout and they could just like be lifted up and taken back to land and everything, they'd all be fine. Um, I think the real answer for me would be, would be dedicated funding streams that are sustainable and reliable. Yep. Right. Um, now in the US there's a little bit of a different situation than when you look at other kind of high income countries. And I'm thinking Canada, Australia, New Zealand, uk, France, right? Like, there are just the, the system of government is different. And I, Adam, I know this is something that you talk about a lot, and the United States is much more akin to 50 separate countries Yep. Like their own way of doing things than, than one nation. And then, for example, in California, there's 58 counties in California. Right. And so just the structure, the government structure makes looking solely to government funding, difficult, difficult, Speaker 4 00:51:22 Challenging. Um, I, I mean, I would love for the state of California to come in and say, yep, we're gonna fund drowning prevention and water safety. Right. Forever. But I'm realistic that the Department of Public Health has a lot of other pressing issues and water safety is lower in the ranking than an opioid epidemic and mm-hmm. <affirmative> obesity epidemic and a chronic health, you know, c h D problem. Right. Like I understand that. And so if I was to wave my magic wand, I think it would be some dedicated funding streams to support research to support some of this coalition and partnership work. Like Speaker 3 00:52:07 It takes money. Speaker 4 00:52:08 Alyssa, I know this is, I know this is like one of your things, <laugh>. Speaker 3 00:52:11 Oh, well we were talking about this in episode one around like just how there's a deeper field of people in the space now, but we're scrapping still for resources. And it's like we, they're ha I fully am on board. It's like it takes money to, to solve problems as much as you don't want that to be the case. And we're really good at scrapping around with not, you know, being scrappy and getting, you know, stewarding our resources like wisely. And, but it is, we have got to have, we've gotta have more funding. I think we're, I give you the magic wand. You win <laugh> what we need. Speaker 2 00:52:52 I wanna toss that. I know that I said that was gonna be the final question, but I wanna pose, uh, it could be a yes or no question to you will, cause this came up in our, uh, last episode discussion is I, you know, I think that we are at a tipping point in water safety and potentially with that funding piece, right? Because whether it's it's government, or whether it's philanthropy or corporate giving, or any of the potential revenue streams that we may see in, in, in this line of work, um, all of those people care where those dollars go and are they, are those dollars being used effectively? Right. And I don't know, especially in the United States that we've always been as organized as what we're becoming is maybe a way I could put it. Like I, I think we finally have the right alignment across different sectors. Speaker 2 00:53:41 I think we are getting more organized on a research front and maybe not having the data that we need to have, but, you know, being more, I guess having consensus around the direction we're going. So I'm curious to see if you think the same way on that. Like, do you think that we're, we are kind of chipping away at that problem to kind of show funders that maybe we are more serious and this is an area where they can trust and that their investment is gonna show, um, you know, kind of that I hate using the term return on investment, but you know, that, that if their dollars are applied to drowning prevention, they are actually going to make, you know, positive gains. Speaker 4 00:54:18 There's a lot in there. Um, <laugh> I know, Speaker 2 00:54:21 I know <laugh>. Speaker 4 00:54:22 Yeah. There's a lot in there. It's just turned into a two hour podcast. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah. That's okay. That's okay. We're going for it. So, I, you know, um, uh, will, will, beach Lifeguard data, public Health Guide, right? Like, just, let's just clarify that I, it all starts with the data, right? And I think that your assessment that, uh, uh, better research and better data is the foundation for justifying and showing whoever, government, corporations, donors, whatever, um, is the starting point. Uh, because having a foundation to not only show the size, scope, and burden of the problem, but also show where we can strategically intervene and make a difference is key. It's super key. And so, like, right, as a research guy, I'm always gonna say, yeah, we need better data, we need better research. But that doesn't stop us from kind of moving forward on the things that we do know we can do now. Speaker 4 00:55:28 And I, and I, you brought up a, the kind of taboo like return on investment piece, um, which is fine, but I think, and this is a lesson that I learned from Tizzy Benedict Seattle Children's, is we need to, as a water safety sector broadly defined, start reframing the issue to show the benefits of being in, on and around the water, right? Yeah. So survival is not enough, right? We, we should be in the business of not only making sure that kids don't drown, but making sure that kids get a swimming lesson, have a blast blast, right? Like, even though, even though I didn't, even though I didn't really love my time with Gretchen, the swim instructor, but like that led me to, to be in this field, but it led me to a lifetime of, of like mental health, physical health, family time, right? Speaker 4 00:56:28 Like, like my most fondest childhood memories of spending time with my grandparents are sitting in their jacuzzi, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like, I, like I remember my uncle was the one that taught me to scuba dive, right? Like, I remember being in the water with my friends in high school surfing and body surfing, right? Like, none of that was possible if I didn't have basic water competence as a child. And so I think in this return on investment conversation, it would behoove us to start thinking about framing the issue, not only as preventing death, but also promoting a Speaker 3 00:57:04 Life wellness, a Speaker 4 00:57:05 Healthy life. A healthy life around the water, Speaker 2 00:57:07 Right? Yeah. Speaker 3 00:57:08 Well, and that plays into the first question, the whole water story. I'm just thinking about your water story. And I spoke this morning to a group of, um, college students from Houston Tilleson, which is a historically black college in east Austin. And we shared, I asked them their water stories, and it was so interesting, and I had this whole thing around this whole privilege thing. Like, I know I feel very privileged to have been around the water and have had access to a lot of the things that you're talking about. And, um, you know, my answer to Adam's question in episode one was around, you know, everybody having access to that. Yep. Not being a privilege, but having access to what you're talking about. And I, I think you're absolutely right. The whole water is wellness and health and not just preventing death Yeah. Or preventing death. Yeah. The holistic water side of things. The blue mind, we have the blue mind. Speaker 4 00:58:07 Yeah. That's like, yeah, that's right. And I mean, it is just a little bit of a friendship, right? Like I, my supervisor, my boss at, um, at Hogue Hospital, who's a community health guru, made the comment, she's like, you know, that the junior lifeguard programs are like, without a doubt, the biggest community health programs in Southern California. Like, they're massive, right? Like it's the biggest community health program that the city runs, but they don't think about it like that. They think about it as like a summer camp kind of a thing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, right? And so I think it is, it is, it does take a little bit of a frame shift in some of these conversations to help a donor with data understand that an X hundred thousand dollars investment is not only gonna save kids lives, but also going to, uh, improve jobs for swim instructors. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and lifeguards and, you know, open up pathways for access to water, like you said, uh, Alyssa, right? And so mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah, it is, uh, the other interesting part of the issue is being able to think laterally about this, um, this problem. Speaker 2 00:59:08 Yeah, absolutely. Well, well, I, I know I'd said this in episode one, Alyssa, I could probably banter for three hours just ourselves mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And now we, we could probably make this a full day podcast, but, um, I know we kept you a little longer than, uh, we said we would, but, um, I want to thank you because, um, you know, you really have shown amazing leadership just, you know, globally, but in your work in California and really everything you touch and, um, I, I, I say the same thing about Alyssa. I mean, we need people, um, like the both of you out there, you know, to really champion this around, around the globe, um, not just in the United States, but it is truly a global problem. So, uh, thank you for being a water safety champion and, uh, joining us today. Um, and thank you to our listeners at home. Speaker 2 00:59:53 Uh, thanks for joining us and, uh, on our next episode, we are gonna be joined, um, by Beth Root of World's largest swimming lesson. And listen, I can tease out our fourth guest as well cause I'm really stoked about this. One will. Not that I wasn't stoked about you or stoked about Beth, but, uh, we got Dr. Steve Langor for that's gonna be joining us. And Steve is an absolute awesome legend as far as, uh, research goes in, uh, the aquatics and water safety space. So, uh, will, thank you Alyssa. Thanks for being my guest host as always. And uh, thanks for tuning in. We'll see you on episode three. Bye. Speaker 4 01:00:29 Thank you.

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