Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: NDPA presents the Water Safety Champion podcast.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: Welcome back to the next episode of the NDPA Water Safety Champion podcast. It's Adam Kechmarchy, the CEO of the NDPA, joined by one half of the water safety odd couple, as always, that today is Alyssa Magram. How are you doing, Alyssa?
[00:00:26] Speaker C: I'm great.
[00:00:28] Speaker B: It's always good to have you as my co host on the Water Safety Champion podcast. I missed you. You kind of left me with Alan Korn for the last few episodes that.
[00:00:37] Speaker C: Was all about signing up in a Google spreadsheet of who could be where, when. So here I am today. So. But I'm happy to be.
[00:00:44] Speaker A: Happy to be here, happy to be.
[00:00:45] Speaker C: Part of this conversation.
[00:00:47] Speaker B: Well, I'm really excited because I really feel today we have a great water safety champion on the podcast, someone who is somewhat new to the aquatics industry over the last few years, but someone who has come in and made some big changes in the industry and actually is pretty involved with NDPA, serving as our current vice president. And that is Sabina Hickman with the pool and hot tub alliance. How are you doing, Sabina?
[00:01:12] Speaker A: I'm good, I'm good. How are you guys?
[00:01:15] Speaker B: Good.
[00:01:16] Speaker C: Great.
[00:01:17] Speaker B: Good. We are happy to have you on the Water Safety champion podcast. And, Sabine, I know we probably have a lot to discuss, but I'm going to start out, as Alyssa knows, we have a rule, and you get the first question, which is, what is your water story?
What brought you to kind of working in this industry, but also just general enjoyment around water? Give us that story.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's interesting that you asked that.
I started my position here about four years ago, September of 2019. And as you know, Adam, the pool and hot tub alliance was a result of a merger from the NSPF, a foundation out in Colorado where my friend Alyssa now resides, and APSP, the national association in Alexandria. And it's so interesting because the foundation had a rich history of working with pool operators and step into swim the drowning prevention program. And they asked me the same question, like, what do you like? What connects you to water? And I was like, okay, I love the beach. I love the ocean. And then it hit me. So my water story. And the nominee of the nations committee, the CEO search committee, said, this is what literally got me the job, is when I was. So I have two boys, and they were big baseball players, and baseball parents are crazy. They go out an hour before the game and, like, rake the field and line the field. Anyway, my boys were fortunate enough to play all stars, and we were playing in the district tournament. You had to win to go to the state tournament. It's like going to the final four, right? And so my son, we played a team that beat us a year before, right? And there was. It was like high drama, right? My son was pitching. He was always wanting to go deep in the count. He. Two strikes and then go full count. Anyway, it was like 1030 at night because we had a rain delay. And the umpire say, hey, when the clock hits 1045, the lights go out. Like, game is over. So we were down by two runs. There was two runners on, two out. And my son went deep in the count. O and two, one and two, two and two, full count. This kid throws a ball high, like, high and outside, and Bryce hits it. Three run walk off, home run. I am jumping up and down, and the fellow parent who was like, this big six four marine, he comes over to, I don't know, hug me, chest bump me. Well, my, like, one part of me went to the left, the other part to the right. I tore my acl and my mcl. Okay? And I am like, holy buckets, what just happened? So I, like, hobble over and my little chubby son, who wants to be a baseball player is like, mommy. I'm like, get me a blessed water. Like, anyway, I went to, you know, I went to a doctor, and they're like, we can do surgery, but we want you to go through pt first, and we're going to put you in the water because you do it for two or three months, and your recovery is going to be like that. Lo and behold, three weeks in the water, and I was like, I go to, like, a rec center. And you saw the same people there every morning, whether there were little peanuts learning how to swim or 80 year old people who are like, this is my routine for health and wellness.
It was funny because I was like. I'm like. And surgery went great. The next day, I was back walking like a normal person.
And the funny thing is, we're very involved in the community, you know, little league baseball. And, like, the next year, we were running the tournament, and these parents were at, like, this meeting. They were like, did you hear about the lady who tore her ACL? I'm like, yeah, she's such a whack job, but I'm telling you, the water, like, I mean, it was such a.
To start your day, too, right? And I would have never done it. I would have never thought, oh, my gosh, I'm going to go to the rec center and. But they gave me exercises and I'd go on my own. So, yeah, very healing. There's so much we can do to promote so many aspects of the water.
[00:05:48] Speaker B: Well, and I think, too, that's. I'm glad we're kind of going there. I think sometimes people feel that we are kind of against the industry and water safety. And oftentimes, I know there's a long history there, you know, that neither one of us were really around for that we could talk to. But, you know, one thing that I just love is, you know, your role with PHTA in representing the, you know, trade association for pools and spas, both commercial and residential. Now, with the merger of NSPF is really about promoting the benefits of water and all the fun and recreation while at the same time, you know, people think that we're against pools sometimes in the drowning prevention space. And really, I know both Alyssa's history and mine, we both love the water. We come, actually, that's what brought us into this work. You know, we want people to be safer around the water. And I think there's been a huge, you know, push over the last number of years to really recognize the fact, the role that everyone has not only to promote recreation around the water, but also water safety.
[00:06:56] Speaker A: Yeah. And, you know, this whole drowning prevention space is something that really attracted me to this role because you're making a difference, a positive difference in communities, you know, in somebody's life. And so, you know, sometimes they say there's a saying that says it's better to. It's better to be lucky than it is to be good. And we got so lucky with Rowdy Gaines coming on and really, you know, running that step into swim program.
I had no idea who he was when they were like, you have to talk to Rowdy Gaines. I know Rowdy. Rowdy Piper the wrestler. I told him, you're talking to Rowdy Gaines. And, you know, it was after Covid.
He was working at the Y in Florida. Nicest man, as you all know, in the world. He's like, I just want to help. And Rob Butcher, who was on the board, was friends of his. So we, we brought him on in 2020, and he's really, we've got people, we've got pool builders who go in now and say, hey, listen, I want to build your pool. But before that, I want to talk about safety.
[00:08:02] Speaker C: That is huge. That's huge. And that is something I think that's shifting, at least for me, in the time that I've spent in the. In the drowning prevention world. That conversation didn't used to happen from the, before the pool was built, like in the planning part. That's huge.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And it's great too, because I said, hey, if I was building a pool and I had young kids and like, you've got three amazing builders, the designs all look the same. If someone is, is concerned about my children's safety, they're getting the job. And we've got, I mean, this year we'll raise, you know that with industry support, we'll raise $800,000. It's all. I mean, for the most part, I'd say 80% of that's coming from industry builders who are saying this. I want to make sure my customers and their children or their friends are safe in the water. So going to tell them about step into swim. They need to get swim lessons. So it's, it's great. Adam told me about the first trade show he went to, and he was like, whoa. And the work that NDPA does, even before I was on the board, I mean, it's amazing. And the collateral pieces that we're able to share with our members, it's phenomenal. So it's so great to see the industry really supporting all the work of NDPA.
[00:09:25] Speaker B: Well, and Sabine, I didn't get to share this with you, but as Alyssa knows, I travel quite a bit in the month of October and had the American Academy of Pediatrics show. And right after that, I was invited by river Pools to come to their annual dealer meeting and talk about water safety. And they actually, you know, this was during their kind of corporate dinner with all of their dealers. And I was there, kind of guest speaker at the dinner. And, you know, we ran into speaking at the trade shows. The first, you know, kind of introduction I had to Rivers pools and Thursdays. Pools as a company was last year at the pool and Spa Expo in Las Vegas, which we are getting ready for this weekend as well.
And funny enough, the two reps they had from their corporate office were just walking the trade show floor, saw our booth and was like, oh, that's interesting. Let's stop by. Sparked this amazing conversation to where now they, as a company, feel a responsibility to do this. And I even said this when I was speaking at the dinner, like, this is one of the first times I've been invited into, you know, really the lion's den to, you know, talk about this. And, you know, I remember always being told, don't ever mention the d word, being drowning. And I actually, I didn't tell them this, but I kind of used that presentation as a test case where I got up at that dinner and I walked through the drowning statistics, and we didn't shy away from that word and kind of going through that. It was eye opening because I could sense for the first maybe five, six minutes, some of the dealers, the pool builders were, why is he here? And why is he telling me about this? This is not really what I want to hear right now. By about ten minutes in pin drop in the room, and by the end, I had dealers coming up to me going, I want to talk about this with every single customer that I deal with, because I never want to lose a child in a pool that we install well.
[00:11:19] Speaker C: And that I will say, and I think you both maybe know this about me. I did a year as a pool service tech on the side of my role as Ed of Collins Hope. And part of that was because I wanted to get, like, insider knowledge of, like, what people were doing in their backyard pools and had a better message, you know, safety and all of that. And the. And I've heard Jeremy Smith say this many times that, like, the. You trust the pool service folks to be in your backyard. You trust your builder who's building your pool or your people that are in your. Especially in your. And you're related to your backyard pool. So for them, those people, to bring the safety, education and the things forward that can help prevent a drowning, whether it be in the backyard or in another type of water, I think is huge. And I think when people realize that they can be a piece of that puzzle and they can truly save lives by doing something, I think that's when the light bulb goes on. I don't know. Just.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: Yeah. And you look back to when I first started. Like, when I first started, I was like, whoa, NDPA. Like, I had an association crush on NDPA. I was like. And then I found out that small, itty bitty, tiny budget, right, and the impact that it was making, and now, you know, with the funding and the fact that Adam's telling us that, you know, he's interfacing on a weekly basis with the pediatricians is amazing because this movement is create is starting. Right, the nucleus. Well, yeah, you've got the pediatrics, you've got those families united. Those people who I have so much respect for, who lost a loved one and are making a difference, and they all have their stories, and then you've got the industry. So it's really great to see the groundswell and. And Adam's, you know, leading the charge, you know, with this and his other, his other full time job, so just teaching the children.
Yeah, which is great. Which is great. So, really excited about the future. Right? They always say we're drowning in opportunities, right?
[00:13:39] Speaker B: Yes, we are. Sabina, I'm going to ask us to take a step back here real quick in case anyone listening doesn't know who the pool and hot Tub alliance is the organization that you run and are at the head of. And I have equally great things to say about you coming into that role and some of the things you've been able to do with the trade association. But can you talk a little bit about who PHTA is as an organization and what kind of the role and function of the organization is?
[00:14:10] Speaker A: Sure. Absolutely. So the pool and Hot Tub alliance, as I mentioned, was a result of a unification of the National Swimming Pool foundation and the association for Pool and Spa Professionals. So we came together in April of 2019. I was honored to be selected to serve as a president and CEO in September of 2019. And we are the only national association servicing the pullen hot tub profession. We've got 3800 corporate members and we really have three core strategic pillars, educate, advocate, and elevate. So under educate, we've got the CPO program, which is the certification for pool operators.
We'll educate about 38,000 this year. We've got a Genesis program for pool builders and designers.
We partnered with Cornell this year to do executive leadership and emerging leadership under advocate. That's where step into swim comes into play. Do a lot, state, local, federal level, protecting the industry.
Partnerships fall underneath that. We're very, very pro partnership. We want to be the good guys. I don't know that we always were, but we've really spent a lot of time forging really strong partnerships. Ndpas top of the list. We've got our friends in NESPA, the buyer's groups as well. And then advocate is we're also a standards development organization.
So it's interesting, we go into Vegas with CPO, celebrating 50 years, our standards, 40 years in Genesis, 25 years. So we'll be drinking a lot of champagne next week.
And then also all the certifications that we provide, CPO, CBP, CRM, CST, all those service retail builders and pool operators. So I came here and my phone was ringing off the hook. When I first started, everyone wanted to tell me what happened 510 years ago. And I had no skin in the game. I wasn't part of any legacy group. So all I kept saying is let's just start focusing on the future and that envisioned future of what we want this organization to do and serve. So I have a great board, very supportive, and it's been really fun. It's been exhausting at times. I said, it's like that Miley Cyrus song, the climb.
[00:16:51] Speaker C: The climb.
[00:16:53] Speaker A: That used to be like my song on the way to work, I was like, okay, we can do this, but I have a great team, great board, and it's been super fun, and the industry could not be more fun.
We have fun together, right, Adam?
[00:17:08] Speaker B: We do. And, you know, speaking for someone that worked a lot with APSP and NSPF prior to the merger, I remember back in those days when the merger was first announced and how the unification was going to go, and I said to myself, oh, my God, the poor person they hire as the president and CEO because that person is going to have quite the job on their hands because of the history, because of, you know, any merger and acquisition, you know, of two long organizations comes with challenges. But, you know, I've said this multiple times to you, Sabina, but the way that you manage that with all of the challenges was masterful because, you know, now you kind of forget that there was once two separate organizations out there, and it just really does have that future focus, which I know you helped instill. So kudos on that. I do want to ask you, too, to talk a little bit more about step into swimming, because you read my mind.
[00:18:12] Speaker C: I was going to ask that.
[00:18:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, good. Well, and thank you for that. It took a lot of wine to get me through this, those first couple months, but again, it's been. It's been good. It's been great. So step into swim. I will tell you all about step into swim. When. So step into swim was a program that was started by the foundation. And I will say that foundation was so rich in, like, whether it was CPO or step into swim or Genesis, like, they had such heart and soul in that organization. So step into swim was a program that was created in 2012, and it was, again, they were going out to the industry to get them to support drowning prevention, creating more swimmers, and they would go out and try to get industry support. I think back in the day, they were raising about 101 hundred, 50,000. I think Pentair was the biggest supporter of the program, and they're working with. It was a grant program. So learn to swim programs would apply for a grant. They'd be given money. And if you're a donor still to this day, you could say, I want this to go to the Charlotte YMCA. And the lessons were for underserved communities, children who couldn't afford access to the water.
So we're doing, you know, thousands of them a year. Really great program. And then it kind of got moved around a lot through the, through the unification. It was kind of like hot potato went from this staff person to another, but it was so important to the foundation. It was one of those sacred cows. So Rowdy came on board, and I said, rowdy, like, I'm going to train you. I'm going to start by saying, I don't, I have a ton of paperwork, but I really don't know much about this program, so let's create one from experience. And Rowdy used to work with the US Swimming foundation, who we partner with and ran their, their program that was similar to this. So we just kind of started out with a blank slate and just really started putting the program together that would work for the industry. And he didn't, knew maybe two or three people in the industry, and he and I just started traveling and attending trade shows. Like you said, adam, you never know who's going to come up to your booth and what that's going to translate into. And we just really started to, like, tell them what it was we wanted to do. Our biggest, our first, largest donor was Fluidra. They gave $100,000, and then from there, we started seeing other folks kind of jump on board. So this year we will. So we get a ton of applications every year. And the vetting process is very extensive. We just hired a full time person, Jillian Wilkins, who runs a swim school in Florida, and she was a collegiate swimmer for University of Maryland. So her and Rowdy have worked for years. But the vetting process is very extensive. We don't want to just give money out. We want it to be very purposeful. There's like a report they have to fill out. We asked for photos and testimonials, and we know how that goes. You have to get the sign off from the parents for their kids. But this year we're forecasting 27,000 with funds of $779,000 going out. And I will tell you, this is a testament to the amazing board. Our board matches dollar for dollar.
[00:22:00] Speaker C: That's amazing.
[00:22:02] Speaker A: They've matched up to $2.5 million in matching funds. And we carry that over because Rowdy's like, even though we have the money, I'm not just going to give it out.
[00:22:12] Speaker C: Right?
[00:22:13] Speaker A: Like, I want to be very intentional in terms of, and we do it year round. Back in the day, the foundation, there was like a, you know, a grant period where you apply by March and it goes out in April. We're sending out.
We're sending out grant funding on a monthly basis now. So it's really been phenomenal to see how it's come. Next year is a Olympic year 2024, and rowdy still will be doing the commentating for the Olympics. And he wants to. He wants to reach a million dollars and impact 30,000 children. So.
[00:22:54] Speaker C: So are all of your donors for that program PhD members? Is that the typical.
[00:23:02] Speaker A: The majority are. Stu Leonard has a foundation, Sue Leonard up in, as you guys know him well, he's a very, very generous donor. We went up to meet with him. Best ice cream you'll ever have. In that. In that soft. In that. Oh, I like, I'm like, can we please go back up there?
And then we've got. We've got another private donor in Florida tied to the Rosen Aquatic center. So we've named their training pool the step into swim pool. And we do a lot of videos there.
So aside from that, it's all industry people. Really?
Yeah, really. Great. So. And we're going to continue to, you know, carry the message. Rowdy's on the road, probably comes in a close second to Adam and I, but he's on a lot just really talking about ways that the industry can help support this.
[00:24:02] Speaker B: You know, I got to say, I just, you know, the need for learn to swim and access to learn to swim across this country is so critically important, but it's our biggest barrier that we face in water safety. I mean, you know, I. I go around this country and I talk to a lot of groups, even if I'm sitting here in my dining room, you know, I do Zoom meetings all day long with groups around the country. And what I find most often when we talk about the importance of learn to swim, especially in low income communities who, kids who traditionally and historically have not had access to swimming lessons. And, you know, it's another hurdle of making sure their families recognize the importance of this, you know, just because culturally you've never learned to swim or mom and dad didn't learn to swim, still important, you know, to break this generational cycle. The biggest thing I hear is the funding hurdle and making sure I will say second to the funding is the access to water, to be able to teach the lessons, which I know we're all working in some capacity, you know, for a long term solution for that.
But, you know, the one thing I have to applaud is the year round application to the program, because this is what I notice has been hard for communities when there's only a specific, you know, window of two to three months where they can apply for the dollars. If they miss it or they didn't learn about the program, they could be 18 months off before, you know, being able to apply and hopefully get dollars for their program. This helps speed it up and, you know, increase the access to it. And it is so critically important that these communities are supported in that way, you know, and we just, you know, as NDPA, want to get the word out about step into swim. So if you raise the money and you have the money that people can access it and really get kids into the pool because, you know, and Alyssa and I, you know, we talk about this all the time as. It's not just about learning to swim. It's about being competent in the water. Competent, it's not about.
[00:25:57] Speaker C: And in different kinds of water.
[00:25:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:00] Speaker B: And, you know, it's great if a kid learns the four swim strokes and goes on to be the next rowdy Gaines and rowdy gets to call their name at the Olympics and all of that. But if a kid just learns to float and learns the basic skills of water competency, it's huge from a water safety perspective.
[00:26:15] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:26:16] Speaker A: And I'll tell you, you touched on it, the confidence. My older son, hopefully Bryce, won't be listening to this. He was five years old, and so we moved from a. A townhouse community that didn't have a community pool into a neighborhood that had a community pool. And when he was five, he went to a birthday party. He was the only one with, like, floaties on. And I was like, oh, my God, I failed as a mom. Like, everyone was swimming, and you could just see, like, you see this little. Your son who's, like, a little bit, like, he wants to be with everyone, but he's a little unsure of himself, and he didn't want to put the floaties on, so he just kind of hung out. And I was like, we're getting them swim lessons. And the confidence that it instills in a child, it's like, you know, learning to tie your shoe or ride a bike. Like, that's what we need. Like, it's got. It's like, I just. And then, of course, my second son, like, we got him right in the water, and. And he loved it. But it's just. I just saw that confidence, you know, build after he got, you know, he was scared at first, obviously, but then, you know, after two or three times, and then he was like, I mean, and he still remembers that he's like, remember when we went to the Rosensteals, and I couldn't swim like I do, buddy.
So when you talk about them being competent, also the confidence, and you look at these competitive swimmers. I have a family next door. There's four kids, and I think three of them swim competitively. And she's like, oh, my God. They get up at 05:00 a.m. and I'm like, you know, and they're. They're in the pool. But look at that. Like, what that teaches them the structure and the discipline, and you're competing against yourself, you know, and others. But there's just a lot of positive attributes that come from being in the water, whether it's confidence or competitively or healing your ACL.
[00:28:09] Speaker C: Well, I was going to say you. You talked about the healing therapy part, but the lifelong benefits of being able to be in a pool. I live in Colorado now, and our pool closed because we need a new one, and so we're without an aquatic facility right now. But the last time I swam in this pool, I was swimming laps, and for my fitness and training and racing and things, and the guy next to me was an older gentleman, 75 year old man doing his laps of walking with his weights and all those things. And it's like that. There's so many pieces to this, from a safety to wellness to lifelong health, and, you know, rehabbing your ACL as well.
Yeah, yeah.
[00:28:56] Speaker B: Alyssa, you know nothing about those early morning swims. You just don't prefer the lake.
[00:29:03] Speaker C: Yes, I do prefer the open water.
[00:29:05] Speaker B: Are you still swimming in Colorado this time?
[00:29:07] Speaker C: I am driving 40 minutes to an hour to swim, and now there's a guy that is opening one of those endless pool situations in this little metal building, and he just got past all his inspections, so, I mean, and I might get to teach some lessons in there, too. So it's getting. I can only do that swimming against the current for so long. But, yeah, no, I'm having to drive to swim, which is. It's fine. I'm down from four times a week swimming to one time a week because of that. But we'll have a pool eventually.
[00:29:37] Speaker B: Well, that's awesome.
[00:29:37] Speaker A: We will have an endless pool for the demo zone in Las Vegas, and it might need to find a new home. So if you're interested.
[00:29:46] Speaker C: Well, maybe. Maybe find some structure to put it in here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's time for you to ask for the question, Adam.
[00:29:56] Speaker A: Yeah, the question.
[00:29:58] Speaker B: The question. This is the big question we asked on all of this podcast. So, Sabina, I am handing you a magic water safety wand, and you get to change one thing bigger, small and water safety. What would you change?
[00:30:14] Speaker A: Whoa. Big or small? I would want every child to have access to the water and learn to swim by the age of five, we'll say, I would love.
And you're making waves, no pun intended. Adam, working with the pediatricians that you know, I know that number that grew up to 4000 keeps us all awake at night. So, and I think collectively we can definitely move the needle, bring that number down. And I would love to see that and appreciate all the work that you and NDPA and all of your partners do too, to make that happen.
[00:31:12] Speaker B: Well, and I say that equally back to you because, you know, the whole point of NDPA as an alliance is to get people to work together in water safety and drowning prevention. And, you know, we've been after it for a long time. And, you know, I will say NDPA kind of stepped in it for a long time because we were going to pull in spa shows and looking at builders and service professionals and asking them to talk about water safety with their clients. But then we realized that they really don't know what to say. I don't know how they didn't receive any training on it. And that's where, you know, Sabina, you and I have talked about it a number of times. That's where NDPA is trying to help fill the void by giving them education and resources to talk about water safety. But, you know, I can't say this enough. I mean, the organization is PHTA being willing to champion water safety as well by bringing on rowdy, by starting step into swim or carrying step into swim forward into your future model. I mean, it's really about all these small collective efforts we're doing, and some of them are quite large efforts. But, you know, in totality, all of these small efforts are really what is going to turn the ship around and, you know, hopefully point us into a better direction. So you guys have just been fantastic partners at PHTA. So we are equally working to solve this issue. So gotta love it. Well, Sabina, thank you so much for joining us on the water Safety champions podcast. Alyssa and I will be back next week with our next episode, and we'll have Katie Taylor with the abbey's hope charitable foundation up in Minneapolis joining us. Until then, Sabina, thanks for joining us. And Alyssa, we'll see you soon. Take care.
[00:32:52] Speaker C: All right.
