Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: NDPA presents the Water Safety Champion podcast.
Welcome back to another episode of the NDPA Water Safety Champion podcast. As always, I'm Adam Ketchmarchy, the CEO of NDPA, joined by. I think I could probably call you, like, my permanent co host now, because we're gonna do an alternating, like, co host thing. But I think Alyssa holds the crown right now for the most podcast episode co hosts. So, how you doing today, Alyssa?
[00:00:32] Speaker B: I'm great. I know. I love these. I'm happy to hold that crown. These conversations are inspiring, and I love it. So happy to be here.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: Yeah, it's fun. And we're in the middle of water safety month, and this is another really exciting discussion I've been looking forward to. So we have Liz Huber with us, who is the founder of Cast Water Safety foundation out of Chicago. Welcome to the podcast, Liz.
[00:00:56] Speaker C: Guys, so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Fun to see your faces. I know that. See that.
[00:01:03] Speaker A: But not everyone can see our faces. But this is.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: They only get the audio. We get the video and the audio.
[00:01:09] Speaker C: Got it.
[00:01:10] Speaker A: I know. That's so we can make, like, signs to each other and, like, you know, people at home don't know what's happening behind the scenes. Yeah. Now I'm gonna, like, start giggling the whole way through the podcast. But this is. This is a discussion I've really been looking forward to because, liz, I think you have a unique story, and I love your passion that you bring to this every day. So I'm excited for kind of a wider world to hear about what you're doing with cast water safety foundation. So, Liz, let's start out with the first question we ask every guest, which is, what is your water story?
[00:01:39] Speaker C: Okay. My water story is really a series of happenstance, serendipitous events that just kind of led me here.
Adam and Alyssa can see the pool behind me. Never thought I'd be here, but I have always loved kids. And when I was in college, and even for a few years after college, when I was getting my teaching degree, I was a camp counselor, and I had four year olds, and I would get in the pool and give swim lessons to four year olds. The lifeguards would stand on the pool deck and kind of tell the swim instructors what to do. I don't know if this is typical or not. Or tell us counselors what to do. And my main takeaway from teaching these four year olds how to swim is that they weren't learning how to swim with me. We were holding onto the wall we were kicking our feet, but we didn't make a ton of progress in that setting. It was basically like teenagers teaching teenagers how to teach four year olds not to swim. And, you know, when you're a kid and you think you're going to become a parent, you think it's going to be easy. I told myself by the end of my kids three year old summer, when I have kids, I will teach them to swim across the pool, because I had seen three year olds do that. It wasn't because I taught them, but I knew it was possible.
So that was kind of this proclamation I made to myself about parenting very naively.
Fast forward. I was a teacher. I had one daughter who was about 16 months old, another daughter on the way. And our family was actually at a shared home in Florida talking about whether or not we should get a pool fence, which I had really never heard of before. But it was my grandpa's house. We'd all grown up on this property, and, you know, we'd raised kids for 30 years. We, you know, our extended family had raised kids there for 30, 40 years without anything ever happening. Why would we need a fence now? Why would this happen to us?
My sister in law made a really good point that we had more babies in a more condensed period of time than my parents generation had had.
Anyways, the phone rings, and it's a friend of a friend asking us if our condo that we have in Florida is available for a friend to rent. And my husband said, yeah, sure. When do you need it? And he said, today. Right now? And my husband said, absolutely not. It's easter. We're all headed there tomorrow, and we're using it. And he said, I don't think you understand.
Maybe you'll reconsider. Our friend's son fell in the pool as the rest of the family was loading up their uber to leave vacation. And he's in the hospital, and they're helping him get better, but the sisters and the grandparents just need a place to stay. So we said, okay, absolutely. They can totally stay there. The rest of us will pile in somewhere else.
And as we were driving down for our spring break a few days later, my husband was in one car, I was in another. We were at a gas station, and he came up to my car window, and he said, hey, Liz, that little boy didn't make it.
I said, what? What little boy didn't make it? What are you talking about? And he's like, the one that fell in the pool. And I'm like, you know, he did make it. He's in the hospital. Remember, I honestly had taught swim lessons. We had six or seven grandkids under the age of four in our family at that time.
I never really, again, we were part of that conversation with the fence. Wasn't sure we needed one. And I just. I didn't know that that could happen to a friend of a friend. And I didn't know that a kid could get to the hospital and that the doctors might not be able to perform a miracle there, which I've learned since then from lots of discussions with NDPA and Adam and Julie, that it's all too common and it's, you know, such a total injury. But that got me thinking. And then I started asking for swim lessons in my community, and I asked everyone I knew, and it's a big Chicago suburb. I grew up there. I taught there. I was raising my kids there. I knew a lot of people.
Where do you swim?
Do you like it? And does it work? And I could not find a family anywhere with a child under five that could jump off the side of the pool and swim across the pool, which is when I decided I was going to teach my kids how to swim myself. And we were at a hotel in Florida, and I had my then 20 month old, and I was throwing her up in the air and letting her go underwater. She was holding her breath, and then I was pulling her out, and she was clapping, and we were clapping, and we thought we were the coolest things in the world. And I actually met another dad there who thought his daughter was about my daughter's age. We got to talking.
He asked me if my daughter could swim. I said, no, she can't. I'm trying to teach her. And that's when he said, you know, have you ever heard of self rescue lessons? And I hadn't, but it was what we were looking for. And he explained that from the age of infant, his girls were taught to swim. And then he said, very diplomatically, because what you're doing right now with your daughter is actually really dangerous. You're teaching her how much fun it is to go underwater and that you will always be there.
And, you know, I could have thought he was a huge jerk for that. And I was a little bit stunned, but he was absolutely right. And so that's when I decided to pursue self rescue lessons. About five months later, I had my both daughters enrolled. They were ten months and two and a half, and no one I knew in the whole world had ever heard of them.
I was driving 40 minutes at six in the morning, I really. Again, all those little things happened and lined up, but I don't know what made me really try this thing that wasn't recommended in my community yet. My husband played a big role in being like, let's just try it, see if it works. It's only six weeks.
Seven years later. I've been at a pool, I think, every single day of my life since then. But long story. I know that was long. I'm almost done, guys. Short is that.
[00:07:56] Speaker B: It's great story.
[00:07:57] Speaker C: My girls are profoundly motor delayed, so you would never know by looking at them. They were always very advanced in speech. They're super cute, super articulate, charming, but anything that required motor skills, gross or fine motor. They have never hit a milestone even close to on time. Except for with these self rescue lessons. They could both swim in rescue in five weeks.
They ate better. They got along better. My little one learned to clap poolside. My older one decided to potty train herself poolside because she learned that she could do hard things.
And I was still four weeks into lessons when I found out it was the leading cause of death for kids one to four.
So then, as a teacher who thought that I had a business background, I decided, oh, I can do this. I can bring this to my community.
It'll be easy and fun, and I'll use my business background, and it has been very, very fun.
I'll tell you about cast in a little bit, but it's been very fun to bring this to our community. I didn't have a business background. I'm getting one.
And I get to share. By being a self rescue instructor and having a team of instructors that we support, I get to share the most empowering thing that ever happened to my kids over and over and over again. And, you know, you both know this is a sport that can save your life. It doesn't have to be sad. We just need to talk about it.
[00:09:27] Speaker B: Should be the first sport, right? Adam?
[00:09:30] Speaker A: I think that's what we may have been saying since May 1 this year. You know, Liz, I have to laugh. Which, you know, I think, Alyssa, you will probably even, you know, with your years at Collins Hope, being the executive director, um, I think we all go into this nonprofit world thinking, like, oh, yeah, we know business. We understand, like, all these different things. And I will tell you, for someone who's been, you know, at it for ten years, is I still like. I'm like, oh, my God. I didn't know the world worked like that. Like, wow, I learned something new today. So I don't know. I'm sure that's, like, a thing across, like, multiple industries, not just unique to water safety or nonprofits, but that is something like being in my role. I found constant that you always can.
[00:10:17] Speaker B: Learn something new every day, maybe multiple times a day, probably.
[00:10:24] Speaker C: Initiation by fire, right?
[00:10:27] Speaker A: I've been playing that game. Something like that, yeah.
Well, let's jump right there. Liz, why don't you tell us a little bit about cast and kind of what you guys have built in your beautiful suburb in Chicago.
[00:10:38] Speaker C: Yes, Adam. Adam has had the pleasure of wandering the streets of Forest Park, Illinois, with me, which is always very fun, but.
[00:10:46] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:10:47] Speaker C: So the Cast Water Safety foundation is a 501 C three nonprofit. Our mission is to prevent drowning by creating safer swimmers sooner. So, yes, we have a small pool headquarters and facility where we give self rescue lessons.
We support instructors through their training and continuing professional development.
We also have a team of nationwide instructor affiliates, which was not the original plan, but really amazing. Instructors that teach self rescue from around the country have come to us to see how they could partner, which was a huge honor. So now we give scholarships with those partners in about 15 or 20 states, and they all help with water safety education, or a team of teachers that have created education specifically for families that are facing the facts, facing one to four year olds.
We don't do a lot of swimming in floaties.
We believe in life jackets poolside in case of a fallen. We believe in them for open water. But when it comes to introducing kids to that area, we are in the water with them, letting them see how it feels in a safe, controlled environment. And that takes a lot of different, unique education, which hopefully we'll talk about in a bit.
So, yeah, cast is swim lessons. It's education.
You don't need to be a self rescue family to use our education. And it's been. It's just been so, so fun. Humbling and fun. And, you know, we think we may be saving a few lives. We're empowering families.
[00:12:25] Speaker B: Can I ask a question? Because I was doing a little research before this.
[00:12:29] Speaker C: Just.
[00:12:30] Speaker B: I was on your website and I saw your affiliate. I think that your affiliate instructors. So how many of those are connected to families who've been impacted by a drowning? Like, I know Courtney's cause is one of them, but are there others? I'm just curious because that's powerful.
[00:12:48] Speaker C: Not as many as you would think.
Everyone has some sort of story, this industry. And, you know, if I am at a dinner party and I tell people what I do, generally, it's crickets around the table. And then once it's time to go, half of them or more will come up to me privately and say, thank you so much for what you do. What happened to my nephew? Or I was just, like, a disgusting dive bar in New Orleans last week, Thursday. Now. I love it. It's not that I didn't like this dive bar, but someone asked where I was from and what I did, and these three old men just started crying at the same exact time because one of their nephews had drowned when he was two, and they were all there.
I don't think any of them had ever even talked about it with each other since then.
But, no, most instructors are like me. They never thought they would have wound up. Many of us aren't even swimmers, but it did the most amazing thing for our kid, and we wanted to share others, and now it is. It's a nice, active working mom or dad job, and, you know, you get to work with other families all day, so. And then people ask me, like, well, you must have lost someone, or else why would you do this?
And really, I never even met the family that stayed in our condo.
Now that we do this, you guys know the same. I have many very good who've been impacted. So it happened in the reverse order. But certainly it's a daily thing of spending time with and advocating with parents that, you know, wish that someone had got to them sooner, you know?
[00:14:34] Speaker A: And I find it always, you know, Liz, my journey is a lot like yours, where I didn't have a personal impact. And, Alyssa, I know you're similar. I know your daughter was in Collins class and in the preschool. Yeah, yeah. Your first introduction. But I think you're so right. I think so many people have stories that, you know, that are just so connected. When you talk about, you know, drowning is a statistically rare event. Yeah, but add on the non fatals. Add in the ones that, you know, probably over the years have been miscategorized. It's a huge number that, you know, someone knows someone who's been affected by drowning.
To me, I never thought this would be the case. And I'm curious with both of you, I find today that the families that I am close with who have been impacted by this, they drive me more than anyone to keep doing this work. I mean, obviously, we all care about this cause in so many different ways. But, you know, actually hearing that, like, if. If Nicole's having a hard day or, you know, is having a hard time push, sometimes that gives me the extra push. Cause I'm like, if you can get up and do this work, so can I.
[00:15:41] Speaker B: And I can too. Oh, it's, it for me, it's. It's very much a driver for why I've been in this space since 2018. Or, sorry, wait, 2008. Geez, the world is like, I don't know what year it is, 2008. And it is certainly now, having met over 100 families who've been impacted by a drowning, it is absolutely probably the biggest driver for why I stay in water safety and drowning prevention, because.
Is that exactly what you're saying? Like, if families who've been impacted and have made it through their grief or in their grief process and are doing this work, then I can stay myself in here and help save lives and educate.
[00:16:23] Speaker C: Yeah, me, the siblings too. I've been fortunate. Like some weekend events or weekend gatherings where maybe we're teaching a sibling of someone, a new baby brother of a family that lost a child, and the older siblings are there too. And I've overheard some of their conversations, you know, and we're talking a nine year old asking a twelve year old, like, how did your parents tell you when your brother drowned? And, you know, they were listening, you know, and then, and then they're like, five minutes later they're choreographing a dance or playing football. And, you know, they're kids that lost their sibling. But, you know, I hear those songs that we hear on those weekends and I'm just like, okay, put all the baloney aside and just keep going.
[00:17:11] Speaker A: So, Liz, I want to ask a question because we know there's probably been a 50 year back and forth between traditional and survival. Swim, right. And NDPA. We are about getting kids water competent above the age of one. Right. And there's a lot of options out there to do this. But I'm curious, what do you wish people knew about self rescue that maybe have never had the opportunity to talk to, to a self rescue instructor or a foundation that focuses on this, what would you want to share with them? Whether they're an instructor, a parent, someone who just maybe is unfamiliar but has heard about it?
[00:17:51] Speaker C: I would say two things. A lot of the families I know who have lost kids that try to advocate for the lessons will be told things like, oh, it's a really good thing that you're doing that for you because of what happened to your family. And it's just still that idea that this happens to other people. And I went into this, you know, just without really any tragedy having hit me.
It knocked my socks off. My kids having highly trained, competent coaches helping them do hard things has been, you know, it has been a high that, you know, I don't know that we've been able to meet again in their childhood.
It just.
Kids need to do hard things in safe, controlled environments, and that is what this is. The empowerment is the most consistent message we get from families of all age kids. The confidence in and out of the pool and what they learn about themselves. So that's part of it. It works, and it's just hard enough. That is incredible, and that's okay for little babies, but to the videos that you're seeing, the ones that go viral, I think is what it's called when it gets, first of all, those are not in the first week or second or third week of lessons. So no good instructors chucking a baby in the water.
And then like anything in the news, the rougher, tougher, yuckier stuff sells. And so most of those videos that get millions of shares that are probably what you've seen of self rescue lessons don't look anything like what's happening behind me at the cast pool right now. We're not throwing babies into the pool. We're gently simulating emergency experience after we know that they have gradually and safely learned the skills to survive, that it's not what you think it is.
And we've never not been able to skill a kid that has their parent bring them to all the lessons with a good attitude and trust us through the end, we. We get them there.
[00:20:04] Speaker B: I asked a question. So what, like, and this is, I think, to bring more understanding to this. And Adam, thanks for asking that question. Like, what happens on the first day? Like, typically, I mean, I imagine there's a protocol.
[00:20:20] Speaker C: So there's a couple different providers of self rescue lessons. Most are independent business owners.
And Adam or Alyssa, you may know more than I will know, but maybe there's five or six kind of larger networks that you can get certified.
Some of them meet for ten minutes a day for one on one lessons. Some of them are 15 minutes. Sometimes it's three days a week, sometimes it's five.
But the first day is generally a three or four minute lesson and a four or five conversation with parents.
And a lot of times they don't even go underwater and they cry anyways because we are a stranger in the pool.
Hand that same kid to me at the playground and they're going to cry.
But whether it's day one, day two, day three, it depends on the instructor child.
Eventually they go under and the very first thing that's established with a good, highly trained, certified instructor is breath control.
There are ways that we are able to visually assess them and make sure that they're holding their breath underwater. And normally, once they've got breath control, they've got breath control. And then we can gradually but pretty quickly move forward with different presentations in the water, showing them where air is, showing them where air isn't. They learn really quickly. I don't really love being underwater, but, wow, when I'm on my back, I can breathe, or I kick to this stair. I can push up, and, oh, there's my air again. I like that.
So it's, it's very, very slow.
[00:21:58] Speaker A: You know, one of the things that, you know, I always have heard right is, well, you know, oh, my gosh, the kids are going to cry the whole time, right? And, you know, Liz, you've brought me in. I've seen the cast pool. I've watched some lessons. And you know what I find interesting? I think you may have asked me at one point, like, is. Is the crying too much? And I'm like, no. I mean, I've taught swim lessons for years now. Granted, I taught traditional lessons, but I can't tell you how many preschoolers were, like, handed over to me by their parents and the look of sheer terror on their face and screaming as they're like, not that I'm, like, even doing anything crazy. Just, like, literally just the handover of, like, oh, my gosh, you're handing to this, like, 200 man with a beard in the water. And this is a new environment, and I don't, I don't trust him. I don't like him. What do you, what are you doing? And why are you walking away? Right.
[00:22:45] Speaker C: Like, videos of that.
[00:22:48] Speaker A: Um, I wish they existed because, yeah, it was, it was like, I truly, I'll never forget one of my professors in my undergrad signed her, uh, two and a half year old daughter up for lessons with me. And, I mean, came into the pool, like, brand new swimming suit, like, biggest smile on her face you could ever imagine. And then when, like, she put it together that I was her instructor and mom was not coming with her and she was going to get handed to me in the pool. Total game changer. Total, like, my day is now ruined. Please take me home. I want nothing to do with this. And that lasted for, like, seven lessons. We finally got past that. But it wasn't something that was gonna, like, you know, come across. So, I mean, I think part of it is, and we've talked about this, Liz, is when kids are exposed to new experiences, oftentimes they do cry.
[00:23:36] Speaker C: I think there's this, this notion, which isn't wrong, that we don't want anyone to panic in the water because that will increase their chances of having a.
[00:23:47] Speaker B: Getting in trouble.
[00:23:47] Speaker C: Yep, getting in trouble.
But a child screaming because they're not with mom or dad, or because they don't like the hard work, or they don't like the water temperature is not the same as somebody panicking because they haven't been trained, you know, with an adult head on their shoulders, how to flip and float in a rip current or whatnot. It's just, it's two different things. And this idea that we have to love the water completely and entirely and completely trust it and have so much fun before we get the skills, I think it's just a little off. I'm not saying that there can't be any toys or any splashing or any fun. Of course, great instructors try to do that. We try to do that.
We've softened over the years, even the few years I've been doing it, because that is important, but there's just that balance.
And then I don't know if NDPA may or may not stand beside this guideline. And you can, I guess you can delete this out if you want. And it, I have no proof, but it's just my gut instinct.
We have parents, right side, they're right there, they're not behind the glass. It's what I wanted as a parent. It's what I want to give to the other parents. Some instructors think the kids cry a little bit more because mom is right there.
But the same way I sit with my kid through an uncomfortable doctor's appointment, or I don't want to send the message that I'm too uncomfortable to watch this, or I'm too sad or scared by what you're experiencing. I think if we can get parents pull side with a positive, trusting attitude, a good instructor can work through that. And then, gosh, if, if something happens, which sometimes it does at swim lessons, a swim instructor turns their back, it's just another adult, right?
[00:25:41] Speaker A: I'll put it this way. I mean, at least, you know, I'm not going to delete that out, because I will tell you, I mean, for every, you know, NDPA, what's interesting is we don't, because there's no research, there's really limited out there of what is the best program, what's the best approach, what's the best philosophy, right? And then, you know, I think sometimes in learn to swim, we treat it as there's our traditional lessons and then there's survivors. And what I try to is it's not just two providers. On the self rescue side, there's a number of providers. On the traditional side, there's a number of providers. But then you also have this middle group, which is a lot of independent swim instructors, that some teach a swim flow swim sequence. Some have developed their own approach. There's the, you know, franchise swim schools that are out there that teach a variety of different skills. Like what we try to tell parents now. One is you should get your kid into swim lessons as early as age one. That's in line with the American Academy of Pediatrics and a number of different organizations. But then at the same time, as a parent, you need to do your due diligence. You need to, one, make sure you've asked questions of the provider. And one of the things I just got done doing a parent workshop, actually a couple this past week where the question about how do I choose the right swim lesson comes up all the time.
[00:26:59] Speaker B: Pretty big.
[00:27:00] Speaker A: Number one question parents have when I talk to them. And, you know, we provide a swim lesson checklist.
[00:27:05] Speaker C: But it's fantastic.
[00:27:07] Speaker A: Oh, thank you.
[00:27:08] Speaker C: Fantastic.
[00:27:09] Speaker A: Well, and it's the whole idea of like, as a parent one, we want you to know your child needs to learn skills, right. No matter what the type of approach, no matter what you're doing, it should be working towards skills and the program should be able to define what that roadmap looks like. Again, every kid's going to be different as how, you know, how often they go to lessons and how quickly they attain the skills and things like that. But the lesson should be amounting to skills, at least basic aquatic skills at age one. And then second, you know, just kind of what you just mentioned is what I pick up on is, you know, as a parent, you have to feel comfortable with what you're doing with your child. Right? Like, you need to, if it's, if it's, you want to be pull side. If a program's telling you you can't be poolside with your kids and you to be, then seek out another provider, seek someone else. You know, this is where I think a lot of those questions come in and parents, you know, really diving in and understanding what this is about.
[00:28:01] Speaker C: I'm glad you brought up the swim lesson checklist because again, when I found self rescue lessons, nobody that I knew had heard of them. They hadn't heard it was possible maybe they'd seen one YouTube video. It was kind of before Instagram was really a hot thing.
And it was kind of this secret word of mouth thing where the instructor, who I adore, and I hope she's listening, was like, I'm full. How much more advertising am I supposed to do? I don't know what to do. I can't help any more than these hundred kids a year. So, no, I don't really talk about it. And I still remember where I was with several family members and some other instructors when I said, are we gonna shout this from the rooftops, even though we can't reach everybody?
Are we going to keep this a small word of mouth thing so we don't mark it to empty shelves? And we said we'd rather have hundreds of kids on our quote unquote waitlist and at least give them the education and some links and some resources in case not a lot of people read anymore, but in case, you know, two or three of them, click on it, then find out that someone in our community didn't even know we existed. And honestly, once we get to fall, it's pretty easy to get in swim lessons. If you're willing to make the commitment then. But any swim lesson checklist has helped us so much. Because of our decision to shout this from the rooftops, we are almost most often dealing with families that can't get into our lessons yet or don't have good lessons anywhere near them.
So yeah, there's a lot on the parent, unfortunately, but there are simple, free, easy things you can do or ask your swim instructor to guide you in the right direction.
[00:29:50] Speaker A: So I've got two big questions left for you, Liz. And I told you I wasn't going to ask like all the two questions, but some of this is coming up as we're going, you know, one of the things that, and we hear this about all swim lessons, right? But we do hear this about self rescue lessons is schedule and cost, right? I know it's a big commitment on schedule and sometimes the cost can be up. So I want to, I want to ask you to a parent who is looking at the schedule going, oh, my gosh, that's a big commitment. I guess, number one, what would you say to them? And then, if you don't mind touching about scholarships as well, just because that came up in a, we did a Reddit ask me anything last week and it was so cool. We had like 80 parents asking questions about water safety and we were just able to write out responses. But with this one mom write in. Like, I feel like swim lessons are so important, but, like, I've looked into it. I can't afford it with my kids right now. What do you recommend? And our number one thing is don't give up. There are scholarship options. Here is a link to, like, live like Jake to cast to Judah Brown project, to so many who can provide scholarship lessons. And then there's, you know, obviously programs like Step into Swim USA, swimming's foundation's, you know, grant program. So if you don't mind, I guess just hitting on both of those, what you would tell parents on those.
[00:31:05] Speaker C: So schedule and commitment and scholarships?
[00:31:08] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:31:10] Speaker C: Okay. There's a couple. I try not to be so long winded, but, you know, it. It is easier for a kid that likes the water to teach them to swim at five than it is at one. Without question, if you have a five year old that's willing to put their face in the water and wants to learn, they're going to learn pretty quickly.
And that doesn't mean that we should wait if we don't have to wait. Certainly if you can get into a high quality program that delivers results at one or two or three, that is when they're at most risk, and you should do it.
But I bring that up just because with our education, if you are in a situation and too many people are where there is not a one year old swim instructor that can deliver those results or, you know, I was just in Wyoming a couple years ago and I met someone at the pool. She's like, there is not a swim instructor for 40 miles from here. But we're river all the time.
There is. We call it water play, actually. Oh, they can't see me. You guys can see me. I'm always giving away like a sprinkler or a splash pad or whatnot.
[00:32:20] Speaker B: He's holding up the inflatable. What is it, the octopus pool?
[00:32:24] Speaker C: Yes. Just, you know, target has a million of them, but it's not a learn to swim solution. But, you know, just knowing if you cannot get into the pool for whatever reason, whether it's your own swim ability or you have too many non swimmers, sometimes more harm can be done going to that pool and, you know, using unsafe practices than just waiting and making it a sprinkler day. If you have access to that or a splash pad instead. But if you do have access to high quality swim lessons of any kind, like one, it could be life savings to kids thrive on routine. Parents thrive on routine. And everyone rolls their eyes at me when I say gosh, by week four, these families are so sad that we're wrapping up and they don't know what they're going to do without us. My lessons were at 640 and 650 in the morning, and I begged the instructor. I was that parent. My babies are sleeping and I can't do it. It'll disrupt their sleep. And I need a different time slot. And when I tell you, our family has never thrived the way we thrive for that six weeks, because we started our day the same way every single day, and we were lost without routine. Yeah, the back kids like to know what to expect. And if you have a village, I know it's easier said than done these days.
If there was ever anything to ask your village of this is it.
And then scholarships. I can't speak for how available they are around the country, but most instructors I know will either do their own or partner with an organization.
Pass does an automatic scholarship for teachers, nurses, first responders, families with physical disabilities. And then we also have a sliding scale for income based needs.
I do. Adam and Alyssa would know more than I, but I do know there are more and more scholarships, foundations out there.
You know, sometimes there's only a few available, and, you know the way you communicate when you're asking. We have a written statement, which weighs heavily because income brackets are so hard to figure out from city to city in different parts of the country.
But we haven't turned many people away at all. You know, if. If you're willing to make the time and effort commitment, there are so many people that will work with you.
[00:34:51] Speaker A: Well, and sometimes it's just putting out that request. Right? Like, so many don't even know to ask. And that's. You know, sometimes my biggest thing is. But before you think that you. There's nothing there for you. Go talk to the son.
[00:35:02] Speaker B: Go talk to someone.
[00:35:04] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:35:05] Speaker A: Because oftentimes they have a solution already there for you.
[00:35:08] Speaker C: And we have a really hard time saying no to someone's face. Like, even if we have a wait list, right? When someone rings our doorbell and we see this mom or dad or grandma with these kids in tow, it's like all of a sudden we can find a spot, figure out how to make it work. There's really loud toys out in the waiting room of our pool right now. Sorry about that, guys.
[00:35:31] Speaker A: No, we can't hear it. You're good.
[00:35:33] Speaker C: I'm always. The team always wants to take my phone away from me because I'm like, I just talked to the nicest person, and we have to get them in and they're like, we talk to the nice people all day, every day, all the time.
There is a list, but, and there's not a list in the fall. There's just, it is not, that's a.
[00:35:51] Speaker B: Great, that's a great point that, you know, I know we advocate for year round swimming lessons and I actually, when I, you know, I like to tell people the best time is the off season because then you're prepared for the, for the time when you're actually going to the water or planning to go to the water. So, I mean, I think that's a great suggestion is think about when you're, you know, when you're signing up your kids for swim lessons, think about that. What a great activity that's, you know, keep them acclimating to the water and around water year round and not just, you know, it also helps with continue, you know, continuous interaction with the water. Not so, yes, at our little facility.
[00:36:34] Speaker C: And I'm making up this number, but we probably reach 300 kids a year and 270 of those are between September and may, might be able to reach a few new kids in the summer. But by the time summer comes, we are maintaining and refreshing skills that committed in the off season that we know it's not just like this hot thing to do this month, that we know that, like, they're going to stick with this and that we can, it is a journey because as they grow, they need to keep coming and learning.
[00:37:09] Speaker A: That's exactly what I wanted to go to is the second to last thing, Liz, is I have to commend you hugely for this because I think one of the things, and I think I said this to you, Liz, maybe one of the first times you and I ever met is we both have noticed this long stemming divide in traditional and survival. Right? But the reality is traditional is important because eventually these kids that we have got basic skills, right. We do want them to continue this learn to swim journey. And if you don't mind talking about it, I'd love for you to talk about kind of your next steps program because, you know, you're, you and I, I remember, had this talk and you go, we're going to do something about that.
[00:37:50] Speaker C: That's good.
[00:37:50] Speaker B: I was going to ask that because when I was on the website, I'm like, what? What is that?
[00:37:54] Speaker C: What?
[00:37:54] Speaker B: So there we go. What is it?
[00:37:56] Speaker C: And I don't even know if it's on the website yet. It might be on our instagram. But, you know, I've just learned everything with my kids. As they've grown. So the water safety education that you might find ours is very similar to NDPA's.
It's just I've gotten to watch my kids and my nieces and nephews interact in this environment that I then knew was, you know, the most dangerous in their lives and just really see what they do and what I needed to do as a parent. And that's where our education came in. And I would say when they were three and four, it was almost like the safest they might have ever been because they were just these little floaters. And like you, I could literally chuck them in because I'm their mom. The swim instructor doesn't chuck them, but I could chuck them in at any angle, in any outfit, in any body of water, and they would just pop up and float, I mean, with a smile on their face every single time.
Of course we still watch them because three and four year olds are ridiculous and they need to be watched. But then at five, they could touch the bottom and their float wasn't so strong because their feet were sinking down trying to touch the bottom and bigger and they didn't have nice clean strokes. And, you know, I was lucky to meet a self rescue instructor who started in the traditional and competitive world. And I called her and I said, hey, my kids and swim team, now she's six and this is the worst she's ever been. She's not moving well through the water, she's not as buoyant. And that's when we really started talking about this bridge, this developmentally appropriate bridge from swimming and floating and swim float swimming. Most self rescue instructors don't focus on form to what could turn into the life sport of swimming or swim team or whatever.
And she and her friend that she taught swim lessons with forever that was also a self rescue instructor at that point, came and taught my five year old, the younger sister, lessons one day and I had to drag my daughter out of the water after 2 hours because she did not want to stop because they were teaching her in the same way. She learned a self rescue, which was with very small manageable goals that were pieced together. And it wasn't that we were going all the way across the pool with bad form, it was little spurts learning. I'm not a swimmer, so I'm going to say this wrong, but whatever the kicks are supposed to look like, whatever, you know, the arms are supposed to look like, I'm not even going to try to use the words because then I'll be canceled or something.
You know, and I can send you guys the letter I wrote to families when I said, hey, I feel like history is repeating itself. Five years ago, I saw my babies float for the first time, and I thought maybe other people would want it to.
Now I have a kid who went from being one of the best swimmers I've ever seen to a swim team quitter because she did not want the whistle being blown in her face. Coaches didn't know.
It was freezing cold. There were 200 kids, and it was too big a leap. So anyways, we started this thing called the next level clinic.
[00:41:06] Speaker B: Next level. That was what it was like, next level.
[00:41:09] Speaker C: We were just sitting around the office. We're like, let's just call it next level for now. And now that's kind of what it's called. There's instructors all over the country kind of doing their version of it, and at least one or two, I think, trying to make it like a real, real thing that, you know, package or. I don't know what they're going to do. It's not my thing, it's their thing, but I don't know if they'll give it away or sell it, but it is.
It is this one week. It started with one week in the summer where we took our previously self rescue skilled kids in small groups. We'd have like eight kids and three instructors and take them to the next level. And at the end of this five days, do you hear these kids yelling? Sorry, guys, that's. That's what we do here. They're happy. It's week six. No one's screaming.
[00:41:52] Speaker B: We don't hear anything, but we wouldn't.
[00:41:54] Speaker C: Do this podcast on week one. There might be people, but it is about sportsmanship. It is about being coached in a group. It is about trying something.
The parents check off a checklist when they're signing up, and they can check any goals that apply. And maybe 10% say they want to make a swim team. But most of them are like, we just want to keep being coached in an area that are in a place that respects their needs at this age and stage that respects their development, that nurtures, like, friendships and sportsmanship, and everybody wins a medal. Maybe we're like, part of the problem of people getting so soft these days, but I will say a challenge for self rescue skilled kids is they get so used to knowing how to find their air and oxygen. It's like, so automatic for them that sometimes if they get pushed beyond their limits too young, it's even more unfamiliar for them than it was for a kid that wasn't as strong of a swimmer because they're just used to getting that air when they want it, and that's what we do at next level. When they want to float, they get to float. When they're ready to freestyle across the pool, they can do that, and it's just a nice, safe space for them. My girls are sad that they're past it now. Our pool is too small, and they really are old enough for swim team now.
They really miss that bridge program, and now I'm trying to figure out how to get a bigger pool, but I just. I can't follow them forever.
[00:43:25] Speaker A: Hey, just think about this. They're your next set of instructors here in a few years.
[00:43:28] Speaker B: There you go.
[00:43:30] Speaker C: What's that?
[00:43:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:43:32] Speaker C: One of them definitely wants to go into that family business. The other one already thinks I'm a geek, but it's okay.
[00:43:41] Speaker A: We are. We are. I think you can qualify for this club, liz. We are kind of nerds for water safety around these parts. Yeah.
[00:43:48] Speaker B: Yep.
All right, ask her the question.
[00:43:51] Speaker A: You want to ask our final question today? You want the honors?
[00:43:53] Speaker B: Okay, we're so, liz, we're handing you a magic water safety wand.
[00:43:58] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:43:58] Speaker B: So what is the one thing that you would want to change in water safety with that wand?
[00:44:04] Speaker C: Right?
[00:44:04] Speaker B: Did I say that right?
[00:44:05] Speaker A: Bigger. Small. Yeah. Can be something small. Can be something huge.
[00:44:10] Speaker C: I'm going to wake up tonight and tomorrow night wishing like I had more time to think about this. I'm going to go with something small just so it's applicable for everybody. Adam and I recently talked about, you know, we know how to prevent drowning. We know what a good swim lesson looks like. But the challenges with the lifeguards and the pool space and parents that haven't learned how to swim, that bring that fear with them there. It is a huge challenge, and we don't know how we're going to fix it on a wide scale yet. But what I know how to do is help one family make better choices.
And so if you have a new baby that hasn't been exposed to water yet, feel free to reach out to me or Adam or Alyssa directly. But there are things that you can do that prime them for success, just like you think of kindergarten readiness to be more successful and more confident, and swim lessons from letting them get their face wet in the bathtub sooner, to not encouraging recklessness in the pool before they have skills. So if they can't swim yet, hold them in the pool so they know that that's a place that they still need you. They won't need you there forever.
And if you're already on a path to, you know, either too much recklessness around water because of using floaties the wrong way, which would be using them to jump off the diving board. If you don't know how to swim yet or things like that, it is not too late to make small changes that will, you know, kind of reverse or at least improve your child's chances of. Of going to that environment. Overconfident.
We have NDBA, ncas. We have plenty of tips that are harder, like swim lessons and pool fences and very important, very effective learning CPR, but they take a long time. But there are free things that everyone can do tomorrow, which would be getting in the pool with your kid, if you're able, or finding an adult that is able to be in there with them and choosing something different. If you can't. Give those non swimmers your one on one support if a child's missing, check the water first. Things like that. There are small things we can all do. And getting that awareness out and looking at this based on your child's age, stage, skill level, and what type of water they are near will make a.
[00:46:33] Speaker A: Huge difference, I think, you know, I love that answer. And I'm going to expand just a little bit, if you don't mind, Liz. And it's something that I know you and I, and Alyssa, you and I have talked about this so much in the past, but it kind of became real for me with this, you know, Reddit, ask me anything event we did last week. And then I had the opportunity to do a. It was kind of. It was really cool event. It was with a private mom's group out in California, but we had, like 50 moms attend the Zoom Session. And it was so cool for me because I'm used to talking, like, epidemiology of drowning and research, and it was literally like, nope, Adam's just going to talk to 50 moms and answer their questions about water safety. And what was so eye opening to me in both of these was almost the questions, like, I knew the questions we were going to get, like, hearing it from moms and hearing the, like, I know I need to do this for my kids, but I don't know where to start. It would, it would. It put me in the perspective. And I think we already knew this, but it was kind of like that kind of nudge reminder I needed. Like, this isn't common knowledge still for a lot of.
[00:47:46] Speaker C: Right, right.
[00:47:48] Speaker B: We live in a little vacuum of this all the time, all day, every day. Yeah, it does.
[00:47:55] Speaker C: Or they think they've already made decisions that make it too late.
A similar thing happened to us.
And it's funny that this woman that I met five years ago that I didn't think really cared about the lessons that we gave to her. Turns out she is the director of this huge preschool. And now that Covid's over, we speak at small moms groups while the kids are in preschool. And this woman said, look, I know that I've been using flotation devices that are not coast Guard approved for fun in the pool with my twins. I have a six year old, a four year old and two year old twins. And now they are reckless maniacs. And I know I did this. I don't know, what do I do now?
I didn't know what I needed to do before. How do I come back from this? And I knew right then, I was like, this is going to be the best hour discussion I've ever had. Because what everyone's thinking and you're actually saying it. And we were. We were able to give her real practical solutions that didn't require lessons. The lessons were always available to her. And she actually said, I'm not going to do your lessons.
First of all, I have four kids. I'm not coming to your lessons every day.
But we gave her tips that I think could save our kids lives. And six of the nine people in that group, I just found out, are signed up to swim with partners that we trained this summer. And so just having the courage to ask those questions is huge. Adam, I want to come to your mom's groups.
[00:49:29] Speaker A: I know, right?
[00:49:30] Speaker C: It was bring your mom friend.
[00:49:33] Speaker A: I know, right? It was super cool. I, you know, because I do think, though, that's so, that's so critically important because, you know, we oftentimes get stuck in this thing of, like, we need to see the drowning numbers go down. We need, and we get into these very complex thought patterns in a way of how do we do this? Right? And not to say that's not important, right? Like, this is a complex problem. It requires really complex thinking. But, you know, I've been thinking a lot about over the past month, especially, like, if a parent doesn't even recognize that drowning is a problem, they don't hear those statistics and we don't make it in a way that one, it's super scary for parents to think about. Number one, we have to remember that like that. No parent wants to think about losing their child to a tragic accident. So. But if we, if we can get it in front of parents in a not so scary of a way and make them feel, because I think both of you would agree with me there. It's not that this is something that parents can't champion with their family. It's not that this is unattainable. It's hard that there's not one solution that's going to.
[00:50:36] Speaker B: Oh yeah, what's just a complicated. The solution is complicated.
[00:50:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:50:42] Speaker C: And it requires daily critical thinking and it's behavior changes. But the strategy works with your two year old at the public pool is not the strategy that works with your four year old at the lake. It's just we have to have the courage to think about it and know there's something I can do today that's going to improve our chances. And then someone's going to see me do that and they're going to change their behavior too. And all of a sudden it's not going to be so sad and scary to talk about.
[00:51:17] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I know we could go on 4 hours. I can talk to you for another 3 hours. Like sometimes we get to do miss.
[00:51:27] Speaker C: A call last time we were together.
[00:51:29] Speaker A: I know, right? It's okay. It's all good.
I do want to just give a plug though. Go check out Castwater safety foundation. You can visit their website, castwatersafety.org and that's castwatersafety.org. go visit a lot of great resources, great partner of NDPA. And I know you'll be seeing liz around quite a few events with NDPA and cast in the future. So liz, thank you for all you do. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for being an NDPA advisor, and thank you so much. Just, you know, for caring about your community's water safety and giving opportunities for families to become safer around the water.
[00:52:06] Speaker C: Thank you guys. We love you at NDPA.
[00:52:10] Speaker A: Oh, we feel the same way.
[00:52:12] Speaker C: I hope that's not too mushy, but we mean it.
[00:52:15] Speaker A: We feel the same way. We're all about the love here. Well, thank you for tuning in to another episode of NDPA's Water Safety Champion podcast. We'll be back with the next episode here real soon. Until then, stay safe out there this summer season.
