Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: NDPA presents the Water Safety Champion podcast.
Welcome back to our next episode of the NDPA Water Safety Champion podcast. I'm Adam Kechmarchy, the CEO of NDPA, joined by one half of the water safety odd couple, Alyssa Magram. How you doing today, Alyssa?
[00:00:23] Speaker B: I'm doing great, and I love that you have made it into that CEO title effectively. Good job.
[00:00:30] Speaker A: I think the last time we did a batch of recordings, I was still the executive director.
[00:00:33] Speaker B: I know.
[00:00:34] Speaker A: You know, someone actually asked me, what changed in your job. Was there a big salary increase? Like anything? Literally? No. We had a conversation with the board about changing my title, and that was like, okay, go back out and do things. Change your title. Everything's the same, though.
[00:00:48] Speaker B: I think you're worth it. I think you're worthy of the CEO title.
[00:00:52] Speaker A: Thank you. I appreciate that.
And I am also happy to announce on our next two episodes following this one, I'll be joined by the other half of the water safety odd couple. Alan will be joining me for the next two podcasts. So really excited.
[00:01:07] Speaker B: When do we get to do one together? I think he and I should get to be on one together with some, some guests.
[00:01:13] Speaker A: When do I get to join the water safety odd couple for?
See, we can go both ways.
[00:01:19] Speaker B: Thursday, November 16 join us.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: Oh, see, I'm not a morning person, though, and you guys do it so early, right? Then I have to be up and, like, dressed. And I do at the conference.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: We can do it at the conference.
[00:01:32] Speaker A: I listen to most of my PJ's every morning when you guys are on, so, you know.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: Fantastic.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: Well, this is a conversation I've really been looking forward to. Today's water safety champion joining the podcast is Katie Taylor. Welcome, Katie.
[00:01:49] Speaker C: Thank you for having me.
[00:01:51] Speaker A: Well, as I know people can't see it, but every day people ask me if I work for Abby's hope because you guys set me up with such nice gear that, as Alison says, I'm wearing their black zip up jacket. And I think I have four of these now that Allison keeps sending me because she's like, you rep me, you rep the organization everywhere, so of course we're going to send them to you.
[00:02:11] Speaker B: Funny, I don't have one of those.
[00:02:13] Speaker C: Oh, we can hook you up because you're probably a small, aren't you?
[00:02:16] Speaker B: This, whatever, the smallest you got.
[00:02:18] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, we've got that.
[00:02:21] Speaker A: Well, the funny thing is, I will say, apparently, Katie, your husband Scott and I are apparently the same size because Allison is always like, oh, yeah, we got two x. Don't worry Scott, make sure there's plenty in stock for him.
[00:02:33] Speaker C: So, yeah, it's funny. We could rep. Like, we need a partnership with a football team, because the things that we have left over are either, like, two x or, like, we have, like, cheerleader outfits. We've got the two end of the spectrum.
[00:02:52] Speaker B: There's an Abby's hope cheerleader outfit.
[00:02:54] Speaker C: No, I'm just saying.
[00:02:55] Speaker B: I know, I know.
[00:02:56] Speaker C: Like, the extra small. I mean, I think in general, the average woman is really a medium, don't you think? Maybe even a large?
[00:03:04] Speaker B: Depends. We could get into a whole nother conversation about vanity size, but that's a.
[00:03:07] Speaker C: Different in the midwest. In Minnesota, we learned that in college visits, that Minnesota average size for women is actually larger.
[00:03:20] Speaker A: Well, it is much colder there most of the year. Allison trying to convince me to move to Minnesota, and I'm like, give me the highlight list. And then I bring up, well, isn't it, like, negative 20 degrees, like, seven months out of the year? And she's like, yeah, that's fine, though. We have targets. I'm like, I don't have targets. So that would. That's nice.
[00:03:41] Speaker C: You can move different target. Yeah, there.
[00:03:44] Speaker B: But I did sign up for a ski race in Wisconsin, which is close.
[00:03:48] Speaker C: Oh, what are you gonna do?
[00:03:49] Speaker B: The Berkey. Like, the short one.
[00:03:53] Speaker C: Okay. One there. Yeah.
[00:03:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:55] Speaker C: Well, if you're going to Wisconsin, you should come here. There's no talk about it.
[00:04:01] Speaker A: Oh, I love it. Well, let's get into the discussion. Katie, I'm gonna, of course, start out by asking you the same question we asked all of our guests. Um, what is Katie Taylor's water story?
[00:04:12] Speaker C: My water story? You know, what's interesting is my water story. I grew up in the same city I live in currently. I grew up in. I'm the youngest of seven. So back in the day, when I was a kiddo, we actually took a bus to swimming lessons. And, like, that was.
It probably wasn't expensive, because I think it was city run through the rec department.
[00:04:38] Speaker B: It was during the summer, but not during school. Like, not during school.
[00:04:42] Speaker C: I just remember taking a bus for, like, two weeks, and you had. My mom made all of us go all the way through, and we just swam at, like, the local outdoor aquatic center. And you had to work your way through the swimming lesson program. And I think every one of my siblings all went all the way through lifeguarding, so that's awesome. Yeah.
And then I got recertified. What? In.
During. Right before COVID or after Covid? It was a lot harder to do.
[00:05:15] Speaker B: Lifeguard. Lifeguard certified.
[00:05:17] Speaker C: Uh huh.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: Yeah. I just got my open water. Lifeguard burn. Yeah. And it's.
[00:05:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
So I grew up in a family where I swam as a child, and then I had children. Or fast forward a lot that my husband had children. Once I had two kiddos, I decided I wanted to challenge myself, so I started swimming masters, and I kind of say, that's probably why my kiddos ended up doing swim team, because I made them go to the gym with me while I swam with adults. And at that time, my oldest, Grace, was four and Abby was two, and I did triathlons for three seasons. And then I had my third daughter. I was pregnant, and I had a little pooch while I was doing my last season of triathlons. So I've always loved the water.
My oldest daughter, we continued having children. I had ended up having four girls. My oldest daughter swam all the way through college. D one swimmer. So we are an aquatic family, even with what our whole story is, we love the water. And, I mean, I. I ran this morning. It's mental health. My husband said it to me. He goes, we all know you're better on the day.
[00:06:49] Speaker B: Wait.
[00:06:49] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:50] Speaker B: You swim?
[00:06:52] Speaker C: Because I get that place. The world is quiet, and it is just like, you're in your own head.
Gentleman in the lane next to me the other day, and he had, like, an air, like he was obviously listening to something.
[00:07:07] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:07:08] Speaker C: And I was debating if that's a good decision or not because it's the only place in the world today that is quiet.
[00:07:15] Speaker B: I'm on a team with you of no music while swimming because, so I am also a triathlete. We shared that. And so I can listen to music when I run, but when I bike, I can't because I mountain bike, and I will crash if I'm focused on that. And the swimming, it is absolutely what you're talking about. Like, for me, I solve problems when I swim, or I just enjoy the quiet, and that's disruptive to me. But it's funny. It's a constant conversation when I swim with people. Yeah.
[00:07:45] Speaker C: Honestly, I pray when I swim.
That's how I warm up. I literally want, like, everything means something.
[00:07:52] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:53] Speaker C: One God to my spouse, my marriage, other people's marriages, partners. Three. Father, son, holy spirit for my children. Like, I got a whole thing.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: You got a whole thing.
[00:08:03] Speaker C: I got a whole thing.
[00:08:04] Speaker B: But that's awesome. I think that's such a beautiful part of your water story.
[00:08:09] Speaker C: So, I mean. Yeah. So I guess that's a little bit of my water story. I mean, I really. It is.
I wish I could say I live on the lake, but I don't. There's a pond across the street, but I think that would be the only thing that would really throw my water story up a notch. I do find even open bodies of water just so peaceful.
[00:08:33] Speaker B: I agree with you. I can spend about 45 minutes, an hour in the pool, but then I could go for hours in open water.
The meditative piece of it is huge.
[00:08:45] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I find water. I mean, I love water. I really do. I like drinking it. I like being in it.
All my girls are lifeguards and.
Yeah.
[00:08:59] Speaker B: Can I ask. So I would like to ask you if you will share the other piece of your water story and talk about Abby a little, because then I have a follow up question after that about the balance between water as peace and water as something else.
[00:09:16] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. So, as I mentioned, we actually have four daughters, but when my kids go when grace, to place the ages of the situation.
Gracie was eight years old, Abby was six, Christina was two, and Audrey had just turned one.
So, yes, we were a force to be reckoned with. And we went to. It was a Friday night, beautiful night in Minnesota, and we went to our country club pool. At the time, we had just become members of a country club a few years prior, and we went to that pool.
I had a babysitter at home. My sister in law had Audrey, the baby. So I had Christina, who was in diapers. And then Abby and Grace were solid swimmers. They'd already. That was Abby's second summer on swimming, which swam at five.
And she was the swimmer who really was there for the social versus. My first one was like, you know, competitive five. Very competitive. Abby was like, oh, wait a minute, I didn't make the champs meet.
Then she was kind of disappointed and crabby, like, oh, no, I'm going to level up. But she was quite the personality. But.
So we were at the swimming pool that day, and kids were all going off the diving board and playing, and then they were in. It was like an old fashioned kiddie pool. It's literally a circle with a center drain with a thump.
And we had received an email earlier in the week that there was a leak in the pool. So there was a hose going from the kiddie pool out onto the grass. But I am of the belief that someone has a public facility, they would never have something open if there was something unsafe. So it didn't. Didn't even faze me.
And it was just us and two other families that were at school. It was a pretty quiet night.
I had. Everybody had been sent in to shower and we were. I had.
God had taken Christina home because she was in a diaper. And once you have them out of their clothes and in pajamas, you leave. So we had two cars and I looked over and Abby was still sitting in the kiddie pool, which didn't surprise me.
She's in 18 inches of water. I was not even 12ft from her and I was like, ab, let's go. And she had her goggles on and I could tell there was a really weird look on her face. That's about all I can say, is I just knew something was wrong, but I didn't understand at all.
So I walked over towards her and what's amazing is I didn't even get in the water.
She got out, which at the time, like, now, I put it all together and I don't understand, but she stood up and she took a step toward me to get out. And the kiddie pool is, I'm going to say 8ft from the large pool. And it was. She moved like someone who had too much strength, completely lost her balance, and kind of started going fast that way. So I was trying to grab her and she hit her head on the edge of the pool as she fell into the deep water and the deep end.
I went in. Life went in, got her out. She'd knocked her tooth out. I honestly was like, it's not that warm in my mind. It looked. By the look on her face, it looked neurological. So I was trying to understand what had happened.
[00:13:18] Speaker B: Happened.
[00:13:19] Speaker C: She's in a bikini.
There's no. No sign of blood, there's no sign of anything.
And so we're trying to understand what's going on at that point. You know, we've called 911, we've got her out of the water and we're just kind of going.
And it seemed to take forever to get an ambulance there. And by the time they were there, she was talking again and she kept saying, my stomach hurts.
[00:13:53] Speaker B: My stomach.
[00:13:54] Speaker C: And then I'm thinking, did her appendix first? You know, I truly had.
I was reaching. I had no idea.
And it wasn't until we taken the ambulance, went to children's hospital and we were in a room waiting, and she looked at me and I'm wrapped in towels, she's wrapped in towels because we're like. We just left.
And she said, mom, I think I have to poop.
And I was like, oh, time to walk. Okay, we'll clean it up and she kind of beared down and it was just blood.
And we went from sitting in a room to things just flying and moving around us to. She must have gotten a rectal tear. She must have done this, you know, and, and she just, like, I don't even, Scott wasn't even there yet. Like, and they took her back and she went into surgery. And I'm gonna say roughly, that was at eight something PM. And she didn't get out of surgery. We did not hear from anyone until three or four in the morning.
And when they came out and explained, well, they came. I'll never forget that. I don't know.
They came out and the surgeon that had been on call turned the corner with a crease.
And that is not something you ever want to see.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: No.
[00:15:39] Speaker C: And then he quickly said, she's alive. Because I think both. God, like, oh, my gosh. And as they explained what had happened to her and what had happened to her body, I honestly couldn't even believe that. I couldn't believe something like that could happen to someone.
And I mean, and, yeah, and I can't believe so many things. I can't believe that she stood up. I can't believe that she, I mean, she was chatting in the ambulance, like, between saying, oh, my stomach breaks. And she's like, oh, no. I mean, we were talking and she's like, did I lose a tooth? You know, I mean, she's there. I mean, you're six year old. She was very concerned about, can we find the tooth? And I'm like, I'll make sure that lifeguard Nick finds you too, you know, but, yeah, it was surreal. Truly surreal.
Yeah.
[00:16:46] Speaker B: So, well, first of all, I, like, my heart hurts listening to you tell the story and just thank you for your courage, for being willing to share Abby's story and your story and for then engaging in the work, you know? And that's, I guess, my question that ties to your water stories. Like, how do you balance your love for the water and your, the water being a safe place, a quiet place, a healing place, and your experience with, you know, what happened to Abby and water being a place where it can also be a lot of other things.
[00:17:31] Speaker C: Yeah.
I think my immediate concern was that was, this sounds weird, but your mom, your mom focus turns on and at the time, Grace's thing, like, I mean, you know, when you're eight, you're involved in, oh, so many things. But she loved, she was good at it, you know, in the eight year old world that we knew. And I was terrified that this would make her never want to get in the water.
[00:18:05] Speaker B: Got it.
[00:18:06] Speaker C: So we were. And I honestly probably had like, little baby barf in my mouth. But within a week of being in the hospital, we were at, like, I took a break. Scott was at the hospital and I took grace to like a public pool because immediately everyone was aware of what needed to be safe and unsafe. And there's a local kind of wading pool that has the large.
Now, as we know, the large. Great. You know, the huge oversized drain.
I took Grace there and I mean, it was 2ft of water, but I wanted to make sure she got in the water because I didn't want. When you hear the stories of people who, oh, this happened in my family, so. Oh, we don't never. We don't play with dogs. We don't.
And they are bad or, you know, oh, I never learned. My kids won't learn to drive because there was a car accident.
[00:19:09] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:19:10] Speaker C: And I don't. I cannot raise children that way. That was not the way it was going to work for me because I also think that swimming was her.
It definitely got her through all of this because friends and I just think that swimming is such a big part of growing up say that we've raised our kids. I didn't want my kids to have fear of water and fear of water is much more dangerous than respect.
Really awkward for me to make sure that she wasn't terrified to go in a lot.
My younger two were young enough that I don't think it even.
[00:20:01] Speaker B: Right.
[00:20:02] Speaker C: Connected. So I was really concerned about Grace getting her in a lot of it.
I'm very aware.
I mean, there's times like when Abby was in the hospital and I was going back and forth.
Grace did her first triathlon that summer, but she again, she thinks that we planned on your family life schedule prior to this happening and I didn't. I wanted to keep.
[00:20:33] Speaker B: Keep them going.
[00:20:37] Speaker C: Oh, we can't do that. And so there was a lot of things we did very intentionally.
[00:20:45] Speaker B: Oh, totally. Well, wow. Thank you. And thank you for doing those very mindful and intentional things because, you know, I know that that's not the case for everyone who's impacted with a water related tragedy or all the ones you mentioned, cars and things like that. Because you can certainly take two totally different pathways. Right? Yeah.
[00:21:10] Speaker C: I mean, everyone has to do things their own way. That was just the way that I chose to deal with it. I don't ever want to say if another parent chooses to go the other way. I mean, you have to get through this in the way that you get through it, but also knowing that Abby survived that day and we were moving forward, that she would survive.
By the time she was out of the ICU, in the hospital, the first time she had to get into a bathtub for just to kind of body wash her body, she would. It was really hard, but that was.
That was actually harder because she was rightfully so terrified to get into.
[00:22:06] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:22:09] Speaker C: But we made it through that. I mean, it was a long ordeal and a lot of hairs, but, yeah, you just try to get through everything with a little.
And we really moved forward that she would be with us, and that's not how it played out.
[00:22:41] Speaker A: Can I ask you, Katie, I know at the time of Abby's accident, this was prior to the passage of VGB at the federal level.
Can I ask you, what made you and Scott a stand up and say, this has got to stop and we've got to change this? And, you know, what was your thought process like on that? Because I know Abby's accident was a rare accident, but it's not that these issues were unknown.
And I'll make some comments on the law since then, but what. What was that catalyst to make you say, we're going to fix this?
[00:23:22] Speaker C: Well, honestly, sitting in the ICU and I had a laptop, which is shocking because that was before everything.
And I remember sitting there while she was resting and just trying to get. Trying to understand what had happened to her and realizing if it's like reading about the lakey case and other case, like reading stories of other children that had had this happen to them. And it was shocking to me that, like, to me, what happened to Abby was so surreal. I couldn't believe it had happened to anyone else. And understanding that it was really not a big.
Which, because we went through a lawsuit and the path that followed, we couldn't really explain that to our family and our close friends. I think everyone thought it was, you know, thousands of dollars to upgrade that pool, and it was really like $30 and proper meals. And that's when you look at the price of a life.
It's horrific that people would choose to not spend the money.
So the more we learned, I think the more aware of the issue that I really didn't realize existed prior to Abby.
And truthfully, she also really was the catalyst. By the time she was moved off to the Deftong unit and she was chatting and really back to being herself, which was shocking, I had doctors walk in the door and say, does she realize what happened to her body. And I'm like, no.
I mean, she just, as many pediatric doctors told me over our experience in the hospital, children don't want to be sick. So versus, you know, any of the three of us, we would probably not be nearly the patient that she was because they don't want to be there. She didn't want to do PT. She wanted to ride a bike. They were like, I don't know. And we can. We can make that happen.
I have to run next to her, or a nurse has to run next to her. And that's the way it, you know, that's the way it moves forward. Kids don't want to be down. And so when she looked at Scott and I and said, I want to be on the news, or am I going to be on the news? She questioned us.
And knowing her as we did, I thought, I really didn't know where she was going with this. She very earnestly said, I want to make sure what happened to me doesn't happen to somebody else.
And hearing her from her bed say that, like, I can put myself in that hospital room, and I see it, and it was. I really had no idea what we were beginning, but that really was the beginning of Abbey part.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: She was the beginning.
[00:26:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:47] Speaker A: Her.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Wow.
[00:26:50] Speaker A: Well, and I, you know, the one thing I will say on, you know, the laws that ended up being passed both in Minnesota and then nationally with the Virginia Graham Baker pull and Spa Safety act, you know, I'm a data person. I follow statistics constantly, and I point to that legislation constantly as the one time that Washington actually worked and the change that they made actually amounted to statistically live saved. Because you can almost look at a trendline prior to the law passing, when Abby had her accident and Virginia Graham had hers and Zachary Cohn had his and the ones we hear of all the time, when that law passed, I mean, that line went down. The problem hasn't been completely eliminated, but, I mean, substantial impact to. I believe I can still say that there's not a single confirmed entrapment death in any commercial pool in the United States since the law passed. There have been some in residential, especially injuries. But you know, what an effective piece of legislation that was. And to your point, the solution was known at the time. And had it not been, I'm truly, you know, I truly believe this for, you know, folks like yourself and Nancy Baker to stand up and say, we don't want to allow this to ever happen to a child or an adult ever again, this has to be changed. And you know, I know, obviously, there was some very, you know, powerful lawmakers behind that, as well, but, you know, to be advocates like that, I mean, it has to. I know what a horrible, horrible accident this was for your family, but, you know, the legacy of knowing no other child will ever endure that again is just, to me, absolutely incredible.
[00:28:43] Speaker C: Yeah, it is.
You know, there's a song, you know, that having a legacy is truly like Abby's black converser sitting at the front door because she's always with us and. And as much as she's with us in the family, but having Abby move forward and be a part of something like the Virginia Ground Acre act and the Abigail Taylor Cool and spot act in Minnesota and anything that we've been a part of, moving forward it, every time we move the needle a little bit, it is truly a part of her legacy, and she deserved that. And every child that we have walked this path with that lost their life in water, they deserve to have a legacy that their lives weren't for, not.
[00:29:42] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't. I think, you know, I've heard Abby's story over the, you know, at least 1415 years that I've been in this, and I don't know if I've. I've never heard the words how you said that she actually said that she wanted to, you know, and that. I don't know why that's hitting me. So that's got to feel.
You know, it's a little piece in the. In the puzzle of just. That's got to feel a little bit amazing every day to know that you get. You got to. You're doing what she wanted.
[00:30:18] Speaker C: Yeah. And in the beginning, it was great. I wish, you know, this is where I wish I was two people, but in the beginning, Scott and I really had a division of. One of us was always with Abby, and one of us was with the other. So when she thankfully got out of the hospital after the injury, she had a lot of medical issues, so we had part of the time, but Scott and Abby got to go to meet with senators and stuff, and I wish I could have been in because I would talk about that. I mean, Scott talks about it, but I only know it from him.
Like, I'm envious that I didn't because I know her and I would have loved to be a fly on the wall.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:03] Speaker C: What she had to say, had no problem saying it.
[00:31:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:31:11] Speaker A: I wish we could all deal with politicians like Abby. Yeah.
[00:31:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
And a small child shall leave them. Truly.
[00:31:19] Speaker A: You know, let me ask you about Abby's hope as an organization, because the one thing, you know, I absolutely admire about the foundation is how it's evolved over time. And, you know, just even with some of the new initiatives that have been happening with Abby's hope, from the life jacket giveaways to supporting learn to swim across the twin cities and just the work to get education and awareness out, I know that's always been there. But, you know, I think you and Abby's hope are really setting an example of addressing drowning for how it's happening in your local community. Because I think everyone looks at Minnesota, and I think we were briefly talking about this before we hit the record button, is Minnesota probably gets, I'm going to be generous, four months of a summer season, maybe more like two and a half.
But, you know, everyone doesn't think about water safety and drowning prevention in Minnesota like they do in Florida. And.
But you are the land of 10,000 lakes, and the drowning risks may look different there, but they are there.
So can you talk a little bit about the foundation and just your approach to water safety in your local region?
[00:32:40] Speaker C: You know, it has evolved so much for 15 years, but in the beginning, we were so focused on legislation, and then it became, it's easier on my heart to do water safety education and get kids access to swimming. So as a mom, like, that gave me. And maybe. Maybe changing legislation should be, like, the big piece of high. But there's something about getting kids who had no access to water or swimming lessons and their families access to water. So early on, when we were going to section eight housing or being, okay, wait a minute, these people literally live where there's a pool available to them. Twenty four seven. And they don't know anything about water. So we started kind of picking apart different parts of water safety.
And so there's times when I'm like, wow, sometimes I feel like we're, like, a little everywhere. But I think what we've done well is we pivoted. Like, oh, Covid, okay, we can't do any water safety education in person. What is going on? Well, again, we're the land of 10,000 lakes and creek everywhere. Our open body, our town, turned into, like, an amusement park.
[00:34:06] Speaker B: That's our. I was in Austin at the time. Same thing. Like, Travis became kind of terrifying. Yep.
[00:34:13] Speaker C: Because no one had anywhere to go, and I was like, this is not going to end well. Yeah, we quickly pivoted. So that's really when we started doing life jacket giveaways. And then it just grew and grew because you know, the COVID years kind of lingered and that's when we really pushed life jackets. And then seeing once you start in a space, you see the seeds.
[00:34:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:39] Speaker C: And I mean, meeting families, immigrant families, sometimes that have generations of that would come to our event. And they were so grateful to get my jacket. Things that we just take, I take for granted, you know, when my grows out of one, I just get a new one. Get a new one because I'm lucky I'm less than that. But a lot of people can't choose a life jacket over, you know, a basic necessity.
[00:35:10] Speaker B: Hierarchy of needs.
[00:35:11] Speaker C: Yeah. It's not. It's not that they're being irresponsible. They're doing the best that they can. And so wherever we run upon different needs in water safety, then we can act there. When we started water safety in north Minneapolis a long time ago, we realized the kids didn't even have swimsuit. And when we were talking to them at the rec center, they said, is there a Walmart or a target nearby?
We thought about it. No.
Okay. So we did a couple fundraisers and we got a whole bunch of swimsuit donated from, like, Walmart and from our donors, whoever could get, you know, literally cost of admission to go bowling.
[00:35:59] Speaker A: Well, and I think that's one of the things that so many people underestimate sometimes with programs like that, you know, we've talked before on the podcast and just, you know, a lot at NDPA about funding. Learn to swim. Right. Providing scholarships. There's step into swim. There's USA Swimming foundation that's out there providing money for the actual cost of maybe the pool time, the cost of the lesson, the instructor, but so awesome.
[00:36:27] Speaker B: All the other stuff.
[00:36:28] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what we run into. Yeah.
[00:36:30] Speaker B: But I was about to say transportation, let's talk.
[00:36:33] Speaker C: Because you can get them on off school days, right. You have a captive audience and you're keeping them busy, but, oh, how are you going to get in there? Yep. Transportation is a huge issue in Minnesota. So I don't know if you're in a community where they seem to have their own buses, it's a huge issue.
[00:36:53] Speaker B: Yeah. We used to use, in Austin, we would use the buses when they would finish their elementary to the middle, to the high school, in the gaps of when before they had to start up again in the afternoon. That's when you, like, utilize them. But it was always only so many, like, you know, huge barrier. Yeah.
[00:37:09] Speaker A: You know, and that's, you know, too. I mean, even on the swimsuit side, I mean, so many people underestimate the importance of that because, you know, we go to these families who culturally and over generations have not been exposed to learn to swim. And that's not something that's part of their culture. And then sometimes we also mix in the lower socioeconomic status that some of these communities have. And, you know, I think we'd all admit this. They all recognize the importance of learning to swim. But, you know, if it's unexpected or it wasn't in the plan, even though you're offering this great free program, if they can't get there, and then once they're there, they don't have the right clothing, the right attire to participate in a towel.
[00:37:48] Speaker C: Do you have goggles for learn to swim? You know, do you have.
Sometimes we kind of forget all the little things that you need and in communities that they really don't want to get their hair wet.
[00:38:02] Speaker B: Oh, well, there's so many. Yeah, there's so many things. And you look at like families that have multiple kids and caregiving and childcare and all of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:38:14] Speaker A: And, you know, the one thing I also have to just toss out there, at least from my vantage point with Abby's hope, is your drive. And I know, Katie, I think you're personally behind this, the drive to keep innovating and keep pushing, you know, because I even know coming off of last year's conference, I had a brief discussion with you, I think at like our final lunch, the last day at the conference, and you were listing off to me some of the ideas you were going home with from the conference. And I wish so many more would do that because I say it all the time. We have 3000 counties in this country, more than 3000 counties. And water safety is truly done at the local level. I mean, the work that NDPA does helps hopefully guide and provide some resources to people and some unifications to attacking the problem. But really, the vast majority of the work we do has to be done at the local level. And if every community across this country had, you know, someone like yourself who is not only listening to the work that others are doing, but then thinking, how can I bring this back to my community and advance that? I think that to me is just an incredible, you know, piece that you bring to Abby's hope and the foundation overall. Yeah.
[00:39:27] Speaker B: And that being able to pivot, I love that because I know that is something that I truly believe in. If you're able to, you know, you started and the entrapments was kind of the reason, but you have been able been looking at what's really happening and done work there, but then not been afraid to make that pivot. And the pivot I. The power of the pivot is huge. And seeing that need, as Adam's talking about.
[00:39:54] Speaker C: Yeah. And it's. I mean, every year you can have goals of, you know, okay, we want to do this. We want, want to do this. And honestly, every year at NDPA, I think one of my favorite things is I'm lucky enough to get together with Ellen and Allison, my team, and we will sit and we'll be like, okay, what are our huge takeaways?
[00:40:13] Speaker B: What now?
[00:40:14] Speaker C: And we'll kind of bucket list a whole bunch of things and like, wow, that's a really cool program. Doesn't really. Can't figure out how we could be involved in that or. But you, we have never left a conference without a, like a three page kind of. Okay.
Yeah. And that's.
[00:40:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:34] Speaker C: In this space, in prevention, public health, it's really. It can be a lonely space. So having those connections, it's really life giving for everybody. It kind of gets you juicy going.
[00:40:51] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:51] Speaker A: Speaking of that, I'm going to toss out our second question of the podcast to you. And this is. I know Alyssa's favorite question that we ask is handing you a water safety magic wand, and you could change one thing, bigger, small and water safety. What would Katie Taylor change?
[00:41:12] Speaker C: Okay, so I'm going to give you a. Really?
Well, if it's a magic wand, I can make everything happen.
[00:41:17] Speaker A: This is exactly.
[00:41:18] Speaker B: Yes, you can.
[00:41:19] Speaker C: So it's going to have like an a and b, maybe. I think my a is. And I said this a long time ago, and I know everybody. I know Ndva, like, everybody kind of tries to go here, but I wanted the better home. Like, I wanted the seal of approval for every public facility.
Just like you walk on an elevator and you know that elevator can handle two times, and you can blah, blah, blah. Like, how come I can't walk into any public pool and know, and everyone tells me, well, because it's only as good as the last infection. I don't want to hear all the excuses. I want to know why. Like, we have the technology, we have the expertise in so much, in building to make facilities the best that they can be. And having a span of high school swimmers, I have seen some pools that are a little sketchy, and I think that's unacceptable.
It really is.
So I think that.
I know that that obviously is going to take money, but I guess my magic wand would be that all schools are just certified, so to speak. And with that access to pools, like, I know we talked about the.
I'm gonna say that I could have told you a phrase a minute ago, but the water desert, like the pool deserts.
[00:42:54] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:42:55] Speaker B: Aquatic deserts. Yep.
[00:42:56] Speaker C: Aquatic desert. Well, again, I live in an area where there seems to be pools everywhere, but some of them are really old, and so, yes, they're still there and they are used.
But again, I don't know if there's some way some of the pool safely funding could be just.
I don't. You know, I might. In Minnesota, a hockey rink would be fixed like that.
[00:43:27] Speaker A: Well, you know.
[00:43:28] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's interesting.
[00:43:31] Speaker C: And I know money.
[00:43:33] Speaker B: Yep. I live in a community where we don't have a pool because it closed, because it was too expensive to fix. And it'll be five years till we have another one because we're trying to figure it out, but it shouldn't be. There should be a solution to bring water before that, you know, in process, because there's nowhere to learn.
[00:43:50] Speaker A: So I. I'm going to try not get on my soapbox. I've been on for the past, like, 18 months on this issue.
Katie, you and I could have, like, a whole offline chat about this, but, I mean, it drives me nuts that one of our recommendations in the us action plan is to increase the access kids have to learn to swim, while at the same time, we're not investing in, you know, whether it be at federal, state, or local levels, in infrastructure to make that happen. Now, there's a whole other piece of having, you know, instructors trained and having that, you know, of support there. But we need these facilities. And where I live in western Pennsylvania, I mean, we are fortunate that a lot of our school systems, our school districts have pools that a lot of communities do have an outdoor community pool during the summer. But I can tell you, in. There's a big difference in the pool that you have in your community and the tax base of that community.
I mean, in my hometown, I, you know, work for the pool on the one end of town that was more of the lower socioeconomic, you know, status. And then, um, there I grew up at the other pool that had the water slide and now has, like, three splash pads and a zero depth entry. I know that pools operating at a huge loss every year, and the city's okay with it. Where, on the other hand, the other communities pool right down the road is literally on its last leg and can't get any support. And, you know, I felt so bad, like, two years ago, they ran a fundraiser so they could start actually, you know, remodeling the pool. And it was like a Walmart truck sale. And they raised, it was a good amount, like $80,000. And then their almost brand new pool heater that just slipped out of warranty crapped out, and they had to take all that money they raised to install a new pool heater. And, you know, I remember talking to the manager at the time, and she was just crushed. I mean, almost in tears, because it's like, you do all this work, and then, you know, she goes, I talked to our state representative, I talked to our federal reps, and everyone hears me, but there's no action on it. And, you know, we, I always say, you know, in water safety, we have to work towards our short term solutions, things that we can change tomorrow. But what I fear is we're not, we don't have a plan for the long term of this, in this country. And that really has me worried what our future is in this issue.
[00:46:13] Speaker C: Yeah, I would agree. And, I mean, I often am like, okay, what would be the five year goal? What's the ten year. What? What would that look like? And I mean, in the very beginning, I guess I've been in this space since you were a college student.
[00:46:29] Speaker A: It was not long ago, Katie.
[00:46:32] Speaker C: But it is crazy to me that they're really many spaces. You see a five year plan, a ten year plan, what, what that dream scenario is, or how we can build to that.
And I am kind of concerned in our space in aquatics, that doesn't work.
[00:46:54] Speaker B: Yeah, we don't have that. Or I think we're starting to try to have that.
[00:46:59] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:46:59] Speaker B: You know what?
[00:47:02] Speaker A: I would say the action plan, you know, hopefully is a step there. You know, the problem is we need the support of our legislators, the government's support behind it.
[00:47:13] Speaker B: We need fund. I was going to say.
[00:47:17] Speaker C: Funding. How's the plan going?
[00:47:19] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
[00:47:21] Speaker A: Oh, you're exactly right. It's like you both are in conversations that I have on a daily basis. Yeah, Katie, I know you're always listening somewhere.
Well, Katie, thank you for coming on and sharing your story and, you know, the work of Abby's hope, I will say, I mean, you know, NDPA, we work with a number of organizations across this country, and Abby's hope is definitely a shining light into what can be done and should be done for water safety. And I am so proud to wear Abby's name on my chest every day. And I'll pretend I know I'll get.
[00:48:03] Speaker C: Some in the mail.
[00:48:05] Speaker A: But I think the work that you and Scott and the whole team have done in her honoring her name has really, truly saved countless other children and families from experiencing this and continues to do so.
[00:48:21] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:48:21] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:48:24] Speaker A: And we look forward to seeing you here soon in February for the national water safety conference. I know Abby's hopefully be there.
[00:48:30] Speaker C: I am booked. I will be there.
[00:48:32] Speaker A: And if you are, maybe we'll swim.
[00:48:34] Speaker C: Yeah.
Find me somewhere.
[00:48:37] Speaker B: I will.
[00:48:38] Speaker A: We need one where they pump the eucalyptus in.
[00:48:40] Speaker B: So I'm going to work on that. I'm going to figure that out, people. I think, and I'm. I think that is a one wonderful. I mean, I felt so like I got out of my. Yeah. Out of my spa lap swimming experience.
[00:48:54] Speaker A: Oh, I love it. I love it.
We'll have to find that. Well, Katie, thanks so much. If you're at going to be at the conference, stop by and see Abby's hope and meet Katie in the exhibit hall. Katie, thanks for joining us and for all you do and for everyone listening. I know our friend Alan Corin, who happens to be the executive director at Abby's Hope. And the other half of the water safety odd couple will be joining me for the next water safety champions podcast where we'll have Connie Harvey from the American Red Cross. Until then, have a great day and stay safe out there around the water.
